Setting immersion and...things

[c2k]

I think trying to change or wipe this server's history isn't a good idea. You just can't pretend things didn't happen.

Though I will say one of the more unfortunate things is considering the "all or nothing" events that have happened in Baldur's Gate over the years, with the Time of Troubles coming up its going to be a hard sell that it is going to be the most dire of times. Gods have already been walking among the player base, so that won't feel like a big change. I think the only thing that could make the player base feel the impact of such an event is to delete all the spells in the game.

[Snarfy]

I think trying to change or wipe this server's history isn't a good idea. You just can't pretend things didn't happen.

+1001.

... with the Time of Troubles coming up its going to be a hard sell that it is going to be the most dire of times. Gods have already been walking among the player base, so that won't feel like a big change. I think the only thing that could make the player base feel the impact of such an event is to delete all the spells in the game.

Despite having numerous characters that cast spells, the IC side of me wants this to happen SO badly that it makes me giddy... but the OOC side of me knows exactly what will happen if BG somehow tries to implement the ToT. Mechanical feasibility and immersion implications notwithstanding, the sheer amount of player aggravation that a "no magic" scenario would likely cause... it literally terrifies me.

[Rhifox]

The no magic part of ToT is the best part of it. Screw the god stuff, that's meh, but all magic being blocked? Sign me up.

[zhazz]

I think trying to change or wipe this server's history isn't a good idea. You just can't pretend things didn't happen.

Though I will say one of the more unfortunate things is considering the "all or nothing" events that have happened in Baldur's Gate over the years, with the Time of Troubles coming up its going to be a hard sell that it is going to be the most dire of times. Gods have already been walking among the player base, so that won't feel like a big change. I think the only thing that could make the player base feel the impact of such an event is to delete all the spells in the game.

This is something I've spoken about at length with other players. There seem to be a tendency towards grand epic tales, usually involving dragons and/or undead, rather than something equally engaging, but with less wide-spread destruction upon failure. Such as, and I am just going off the top of my head here: political issues, traitor dukes, banditry, sabotage, murder of nobles, recovery of lost lore/artifacts, Jack the Ripper, sahuagin uprising, black orc clans attempting to establish civilized trade and community with BG (Obould Many-Arrows style).

And the list goes on. There's a lot that can be done in terms of events, which doesn't involve ancient terrors or dragons. Such might be the masterminds behind some of the above, but they themselves aren't directly involved.


As for the Time of Troubles, I seem to recall that being brought up when last I played here six years ago. What was whispered back then, was that the server would simply have a time-skip to the time after. Whether that was the plan, still is, or was just player-based rumors/speculation at the time, I don't know.

[Steve]

I'd argue that it would be a better future for BGTSCC to diverge from upcoming Canon Lore and utilize the Time of Troubles as a canon instance to actually "tone down" the epic-ness that has been the paradigm for the recent years.

Instead of the Time of Troubles as we're OOC prepared to experience, it could be much more a "flattening" of power, across the board, and let the DMs forge ahead with storybuilding that isn't tied to some forgone conclusion. Magic still exists as we know it, but Wild Magic appears in great instance. Beings that are more sensitive to magic and their existence tied to it—Balors, dragons, lichs, etc.—recede to the shadows, and because magic becomes more rare, they are much more conscious on how to protect it, and themselves, from being slain by greedy, power-hungry adventurers of the Sword Coast.

You could ask: "why would I want to play Dungeons and Dragons without the dragons?!?" And it is a very valid question. However...how many DnD campaigns actually pit an adventurer(s) against dragons??

The easy way out is to through together a couple of epic mobs against some PCs, and let them roflestomp the content because of the innate mechanics part of this Server. Role-play, and the focus on storybuilding that is part and parcel to RP, can be just as Epic without mechanics at all, actually. But what this latter experience requires is players and DMs, working together, and investing time and energy.

If you've ever been an DM on BGTSCC or another Server or probably even in RL, you know how easy it is for the Story to "fall apart" when the Players (or the DM...), disappears. And that can be, actually definitely is, the great buzzkill that sends people packing from the Server experience. Hence why just throwing bigger and better mechanics at players becomes the easy way to "role-play," because its quick, relatively satisfying, and one doesn't have to accept consequence upon their PC, or to the storyline as it exists after the event or the Campaign.

If players are looking to the Server to provide immersion—a "top down" experience setup—it might be too big an ask. Players are quite free to find their level of immersion among themselves, but like I said earlier, it requires a specific group coming together to support it. Some just like the chats, some just like the loot runs.

In the meantime between now and possible changes to the Environment, it might be a good idea that Players find a way to advertise for their "level of immersion" up front, and see what they can create. There is already an OOC thread(s) that support this.

[Snarfy]

Instead of the Time of Troubles as we're OOC prepared to experience, it could be much more a "flattening" of power, across the board, and let the DMs forge ahead with storybuilding that isn't tied to some forgone conclusion. Magic still exists as we know it, but Wild Magic appears in great instance. Beings that are more sensitive to magic and their existence tied to it—Balors, dragons, lichs, etc.—recede to the shadows, and because magic becomes more rare, they are much more conscious on how to protect it, and themselves, from being slain by greedy, power-hungry adventurers of the Sword Coast.

Legend! And there you have it folks, a very legitimate way to address a lot of immersion concerns, all in one fell swoop.

[Tanlaus]

I actually agree with the idea of diverging from the time of troubles and having the server go its own way. I’ve always thought the ‘deity shuffle’ that the WoTC does whenever it introduces a new rule set is kludgy at best. And since we’re already using 3.5 rules it has no mechanical value either...

But maybe a lot of people are looking forward to it. Be interesting to see a poll of the player base (and DMs) opinion on it.

[Wildsheep]

I would rather have a time skip than diverge like that from lore. Bgtscc has always tried to stay lore accurate for the most part, for the better or worse.

[Hoihe]

And I'm not sure how enjoyable lack of magical access for an extended period of time would be.

Or reducing the power of magic at all.

[Rinzler]

I don't want to be overly presumptive, but you can't eliminate magic for an entire year without alienating a large (perhaps majority) portion of the player base. There is certainly a group of players, illustrated by this thread, who would welcome the immersiveness of non-magic RP. However, I think it would be detrimental to the health of the server in terms of player population.

Everyone is here for some type of fun. Whether hardcore immersive RP, medium immersive RP, min-maxing PvE builds with light RP, etc there's a place for everyone so long as you obey the rules:

This server is considered "medium RP" and thus while some OOC behavior is permitted (such as grinding monsters and quests for experience/loot), when interacting with others please stay in-character (IC) and clearly mark any out-of-character (OOC) text being spoken.

Point being: try not to Yuck someone's Yum

[Hoihe]

I don't want to be overly presumptive, but you can't eliminate magic for an entire year without alienating a large (perhaps majority) portion of the player base. There is certainly a group of players, illustrated by this thread, who would welcome the immersiveness of non-magic RP. However, I think it would be detrimental to the health of the server in terms of player population.

Everyone is here for some type of fun. Whether hardcore immersive RP, medium immersive RP, min-maxing PvE builds with light RP, etc there's a place for everyone so long as you obey the rules:

This server is considered "medium RP" and thus while some OOC behavior is permitted (such as grinding monsters and quests for experience/loot), when interacting with others please stay in-character (IC) and clearly mark any out-of-character (OOC) text being spoken.

Point being: try not to Yuck someone's Yum

... We should avoid claiming "non-magic RP" means immersive.

We're a high-magic, high-fantasy setting. Magic is commonplace for certain races, even if others have it more rare. Candlekeep employs lots of magic for instance for its quality of life improvements. Likewise for sunites and their martial corps.

Even wood elves use magic in their daily life, even if they avoid the arcane variant.

One could argue the lack of magic is less immersive/realistic, considering the setting.

I am a strong proponent of immersive RP (some would say, "simulation") - which includes realizing the existence of healing magics.

[DM Boo]

I don't want to be overly presumptive, but you can't eliminate magic for an entire year without alienating a large (perhaps majority) portion of the player base. There is certainly a group of players, illustrated by this thread, who would welcome the immersiveness of non-magic RP. However, I think it would be detrimental to the health of the server in terms of player population.

Everyone is here for some type of fun. Whether hardcore immersive RP, medium immersive RP, min-maxing PvE builds with light RP, etc there's a place for everyone so long as you obey the rules:

This server is considered "medium RP" and thus while some OOC behavior is permitted (such as grinding monsters and quests for experience/loot), when interacting with others please stay in-character (IC) and clearly mark any out-of-character (OOC) text being spoken.

Point being: try not to Yuck someone's Yum

I'm going to suggest we try this for a week, just to confuse people.

For myself, concerning D&D, I'll live in the 3.5 Edition ruleset (1372 DR) for all eternity.

Our server lore is an interesting homebrew mishmash of all three of the first generations - Which basically means we could go anywhere with it in the future!

[ajcolt]

As far as Balor's go there is a lot of them in the abyss (possibly infinite layers) and plenty looking to take their place. Not as much with Pitfiends. If people want to play their level 30s or near that and challenge themselves on the weekends or whenever so be it. The game is designed for murder hoboing. There really isn't anything wrong with players rping to form hunting parties to find and kill a dragon or a Balor or whatever.

What I see happening is a mismatch in player preferences and lighter versus more heavy RP. It's much the same in any game you play and RP in. Admittedly I lose immersion as well for various reasons. I don't much care when players have their characters brag about murdering every notable beast of legend on the coast in a day for example. Realistically there is all levels of rp'ers here all with different preferences. Newer Rp'ers will improve being around more experienced ones. All-in-all when it comes down to it if I let little things bother me to the point of breaking my immersion and fun that is squarely upon me. It's easy enough to tune out two or three players chatting within earshot it only takes a little effort. I'm not saying to ignore them entirely, that's just rude and doesn't do anyone any good and is very toxic, just convieniently forget things here or there.

[Trinket]

Personally, I think having a year of "wild magic" rather than no magic would be just as interesting. Give players the option to have their magic work in strange ways -- either through mechanics, or just through RP - allowing players the option to choose. I'd make a sorcerer just to have their magic surge unreliably, or a wizard who suddenly cannot cast spells and struggles with self identity. The difference being that people can choose if they are unaffected, or not and to what extent. This could be further encouraged at DM events where the DMs have the freedom to say "No potions, magic items, or spells will work because of a wild magic surge" if they wanted to.

I know many players will argue that it doesn't follow with lore, but its hard to have an actual period of no-magic as others have said.

Just a thought!

[c2k]

I actually agree with the idea of diverging from the time of troubles and having the server go its own way. I’ve always thought the ‘deity shuffle’ that the WoTC does whenever it introduces a new rule set is kludgy at best. And since we’re already using 3.5 rules it has no mechanical value either...

ToT was under TSR's watch. Ed Greenwood also hates Mystra.