Current DM Plots and Threads

[Trinket]

I'd just like to start out by saying, I appreciate all the work the DMs are doing. Nothing makes my day more than a DM taking notice of my RP, or throwing out an event. I can't imagine the pressure involved in being a DM - but the fact they persevere under constant scrutiny is extremely admirable.

This isn't a solution, but I want to contribute to the discussion because I find this stuff interesting.

From a purely information sharing point of view, I think it's important to remember that making posts to share information still takes up DM time - and the shorter the time invested in sharing the information, the more likely players are going to contact the DM directly and ask them further questions. I can see this as being a bigger problem when more characters are doing more varied tasks to try and solve the event, because a DM is then required to summarize all the happenings of that event. We have some amazing storytellers - but making that information available in such a way that every single player is left with no questions is nigh impossible, imo. Many players might just circumvent the post on the forums and contact the DM directly.

I feel like a lot of the expectations on DMs is heavy, and unfair, considering that in a persistent world like this it far exceeds what would be expected of a tabletop DM. I'd like to see more players being given the responsibility of typing up the key happenings of an event from a character perspective, including what tasks their comrades were undertaking. IF someone undertook a task on the side, they should contact that designated leader and fill them in on what occurred so that it may be written up and posted. While this does have issues in itself, it might be something that takes a load off the DMs. We have so very few DMs for such a large player base, and their responsibilities include administration tasks and RP server wide.

This isn't a DM problem, this is a community problem. I'm fairly disgusted to say that there have been many times during and after DM events where I have seen players publicly ridicule the DMs, the events, or the story. These are a real people volunteering their time to try and make the server a better place. If players have an issue, I strongly suggest they bring it to the DM directly or the DM team as a whole. If you dislike a certain DM and their events, then politely excuse yourself. New players don't need to see a community at each others throats during events as it sets a bad example. We should all be friendly, even if we aren't friends.

It's extremely disheartening to consider that we have lost far more DMs than we have gained of late.

[athornforyourheart]

I am unsure if your post is in relation to my own but thank you for taking the time to voice your opinion on the actual matter. I say that in a meaningful way. I'll address, in my own words, my thoughts on two topics.

I feel like a lot of the expectations on DMs is heavy, and unfair, considering that in a persistent world like this it far exceeds what would be expected of a tabletop DM. I'd like to see more players being given the responsibility of typing up the key happenings of an event from a character perspective, including what tasks their comrades were undertaking. IF someone undertook a task on the side, they should contact that designated leader and fill them in on what occurred so that it may be written up and posted. While this does have issues in itself, it might be something that takes a load off the DMs. We have so very few DMs for such a large player base, and their responsibilities include administration tasks and RP server wide.

My proposal for an RP related thread was not to put all the work on the DM. In my post, I mentioned players would be able to post on a certain plot topic thread. As a matter of fact, this is no different from the Campaign Plot threads. Most recently, from the devil wars. So this is nothing new or added on work. It's simply a suggestion to help organize plots rather than scroll through server wide rumor channels. The undertone of your comment almost makes me think this thread was created to attack DM's or their time - which I have constantly stated, is not. This is also not a thread about how many DM's we have. Its simply suggesting to the one's we do have, to create a thread to post (both DM and players) entries related to a plot. Yes, this does call for players to be more involved and to actually do it, but as we've seen in the campaign plot threads- players tend to participate more in posting when its available.

This isn't a DM problem, this is a community problem. I'm fairly disgusted to say that there have been many times during and after DM events where I have seen players publicly ridicule the DMs, the events, or the story. These are a real people volunteering their time to try and make the server a better place. If players have an issue, I strongly suggest they bring it to the DM directly or the DM team as a whole. If you dislike a certain DM and their events, then politely excuse yourself. New players don't need to see a community at each others throats during events as it sets a bad example. We should all be friendly, even if we aren't friends.

It's extremely disheartening to consider that we have lost far more DMs than we have gained of late.


**edit: Ive updated the topic title to better reflect the thread. I feel some ppl were reading "Activity" and ran with it.

This is not a topic for attacking DM's and this veers away from the point I am making. This is a suggestion to what I see as a problem when players want/ask/need information on current events. In considerations to time DM's put into the server, I feel adding a topic is but a small request. It's merely just creating a pipeline for information to funnel through for their event/plot line.


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I am unsure if your posts were in relation to the other comments posted which turned into a back and forth about DM's involvement and DM's availability. This thread in not in relation to any of those two topics - hence why I reposted back to the original topic.

Vilethings had mentioned:

"I can see a thread specifically for an event chain being useful though, especially for people to see what is going on or available in their time zones. I don't know much about forum moderation though, so maybe if these threads could be curated by the DM running the sequence and shelved once the events are complete, you could avoid getting a muddled mess and ensure only the most relevant posts were easily accessible."

Which I was happy to hear because this is what I was trying to suggest.

In the end though, its not my realm to force or demand. Its a suggestion. Nobody is payed to play and payed to work. It doesn't need to be done.. I just think it would help. And as for the conversation that I had in the nexus with the people that prompted me to write this thread, there was nothing said of ill will toward DM's or scrutinizing.

In truth, I can understand their not wanting to come onto the forums and post their thoughts. These forums are a deadly arena sometimes and often just turn a single post into a vague argument about something paralleled to the original post.

Stating yet again for clarity - this is not an attack on DM's or their time/activity.

[Trinket]

I am unsure if your post is in relation to my own but thank you for taking the time to voice your opinion on the actual matter. I say that in a meaningful way. I'll address, in my own words, my thoughts on two topics.

My post was more an expression of my opinion rather than a direct response to what you have said. I think a lot of people are raising good points, and I wanted to share my own opinions on the topic.

The undertone of your comment almost makes me think this thread was created to attack DM's or their time - which I have constantly stated, is not.

I'm sorry if I came across that way, but there was not an intentional undertone to my comments directed at you or the other posters here. I still feel like there are players that are borderline verbally abusive towards DMs which for our community is unhealthy. My rant may have gone off topic but I still feel passionate about reminding readers that DMs are people too.

This is also not a thread about how many DM's we have. Its simply suggesting to the one's we do have, to create a thread to post (both DM and players) entries related to a plot. Yes, this does call for players to be more involved and to actually do it, but as we've seen in the campaign plot threads- players tend to participate more in posting when its available.

I agree with the core of what you're saying - that new and inventive ways of approaching information sharing is more important than ever, and not a criticism of past and current methods. My concern is that adding more (or more complicated) work for DMs will make it harder to achieve what we're looking for.

This is not a topic for attacking DM's and this veers away from the point I am making. This is a suggestion to what I see as a problem when players want/ask/need information on current events. In considerations to time DM's put into the server, I feel adding a topic is but a small request. It's merely just creating a pipeline for information to funnel through for their event/plot line.

Unfortunately I think that investigating how DMs approach events and document it for their players can be seen as criticism, and DMs may feel attacked by the impression of this thread. I'm in no way suggesting that this was your intention, but the reason for my off topic rant was to show some solidarity for the DMs and their workload.

I agree that adding a topic is not a lot to ask for, but I wanted to point out that we already ask DMs a lot so it's something I am hesitant about adding to their schedule.

I am unsure if your posts were in relation to the other comments posted which turned into a back and forth about DM's involvement and DM's availability. This thread in not in relation to any of those two topics - hence why I reposted back to the original topic.

It was just an expression of my opinions on current events, and as a real life information researcher. I usually read what others have to say, and then post my own views and thoughts if I don't feel like it's a direct response to someone. When quoting people directly - I often feels like I am being critical of a small fragment of what the person posts rather than their whole message. That's not usually how I like to do things, but I can understand how that can be confusing for important threads like these.

[athornforyourheart]

Ive read your reply and both respect and understand where you are coming from. It is true that there are players that are borderline verbally abusive towards DMs which for our community is unhealthy. On my bad days, I myself, can be one of them. A majority of players have their moments. This goes for any of the player base I imagine. Because of this, this is why I wanted to ensure that my suggestion wasn't taken with a "Hey, listen up, DM's need to do this.." as if it was directly from my mouth.

What I say next I say with a standard tone though it may sound defensive, I assure you it is not. And this is not a direct response to you but to any reader.

I don't play this game as often. Many people who know me well enough, know that much. I spend maybe 4/5 of my time creating content for the server or donating my time and efforts to staff related things i.e media team and content creation. Usually, when I log in, I find myself standing idle in the nexus. I often get tells of "are you actually coming in game today?" because people know that most of the time, I had planned to but I am usually stuck in blender working on a fix or testing things out. All of this to improve the server, its game play, and server to player satisfaction.

Having said that last part, when I hear of conversations taking place of player discontent I feel a want to address it, even if they wont. Having not addressing it just adds to the BG Plague. Many people know of this plague but don't speak of it... the eery dark rumors that infest the BG server. It usually starts with one person conveying his/her discontent for whatever reasons related to the server... then that disconnect infects and spreads to the next person. All of this continues to infect when, really, it's usually a misunderstanding, a quick fix, or just something that requires an explanation to quell heavy thoughts. As someone who does not play the server but cares enough to speak for those that chose not to... I am hoping that the infestation of rumor and DM discontent does not reach a threshold where a player just ups and leaves. Either because he didn't have the reasoning to address his/her concern publicly. I care about how things happen on this server, even if I am playing only and hour or two a week. Else, why else am I dedicating so much time to something if I didn't care to see it die?

when mentioning that investigating how DMs approach events and document it for their players can be seen as criticism, and DMs may feel attacked by the impression of this thread I agree with you. Though the criticism is not directly my own I wouldn't post it if I didn't think it valid enough to warrant and suggest help. I have no intent to burden DMs but Id also wanted to ensure that DM's understood despite how it may look, this is not an attack. For any DM's that may have felt this way, I am sorry, it was truly not my intent.

I feel at this point the suggestion has run its course and most DM's have read this and can weigh if it's within their realm. Or, if at the least, know that there are players out there with questions of the availability of information pertaining to their plots. Thank you everyone for taking a moment to read this thread.

[zhazz]

I have no doubts that it is a matter of availability.

Assuming a DM has 10 hours per week to spend on the game, they are going to have to spend half of that for preparation. The other half goes to actual events and following up on them, such as forum management and coordination.

I don't see anything wrong with crafting events that have a specific group of characters in mind, and then sticking to those 7 to 10 characters. Not only is the workload much less, due to the limited input from players, it is also much easier to keep track of what is going on, when there isn't 30 characters all doing some "spectator RP", without actually contributing anything of relevance.

What I would like to see, is more power to the players participating in the events. What I mean by the is that those players are recognized by the DM running an event as being the ones collaborating with supportive characters outside of the initial group. If there is a need to include more then it becomes a decision made by those selected players and the DM in unison.

The purpose of this to allow everyone to contribute, and have their efforts acknowledged, but without putting the workload on the DM to manage the growing group of involved players.

An example of this could be that following one session, wherein it is revealed that the big bad evil is using some ancient magic to fuel their nefarious plans. The DM gives the directly involved players permission to set up a player ran event that goes off to investigate that magic. This can happen between sessions, with no involvement from the DM at all, except to review some screenshots and summary of events.

What happens in that event then is that one or two players from the group asks around IC for information from other characters. They might go to Candlekeep to research, or to the library at the Yuan-Ti temple, or somewhere else entirely that might fit the goal.

Based on the screenshots and a summary of events the DM can then rule what was gained or learned, without having ever needed to set anything up.

This has already been suggested previously of course, so it might just be a bad example on my part. What I am really suggesting is delegation of work. Let the DM take care of the big picture, and leave the smaller stuff to the players involved. By doing that the DM doesn't have to manage 30 players, but only 7 to 10 because all the rest are involved by proxy through RP with that smaller group.

And this bit goes out to the DMs who feel overwhelmed during events:
There is an option in the DM tools to send a "shout" to only the party for whom you are with. This has the benefit of not announcing to the entire server that X is happening at Y place, and suddenly finding a huge influx of characters. How to do this, I do not know, but I talked about it with one of you previously, and it was mentioned that it wasn't something everyone was aware of. Try asking in the DM group on how to do this, and I'm sure someone will share how.

And finally for the players:
If you see a server shout about some event going on, please consider the relative distance between where you are now, and where the event is taking place. Does it make IC sense for your character, who is running around in the Serpent Hills to have knowledge of something happening in Nashkel? Probably not. If you were in the Cloud Peaks, however, it might make more sense. We all want to participate, and we will, but clogging up an event so it grows to unmanageable sizes is detrimental to everyone, especially the DM, who gets flooded with emotes, and has to sort through what is relevant, and who is just there to *scratches their bum, and watches the wizard talk to the farmer*.

[athornforyourheart]

Please bare in mind... as I had stated continuously, this is not a suggestion box thread to stack your idea and opinion on how one should run events or how they conduct them. This is a thread to suggest a way for DM's to consolidate information on their plots to make things more streamlined and easily accessible to players.

This is probably the 4th or 5th I've had to state that this is not a public bus ride thread for suggestions on how DM's can improve their plots or how they conduct their in game sessions. When people add their personal stories, opinions, and ideas in one thread.... it overwhelms a DM and truthfully waters down the original content of this thread. Plainly put, please refrain from hijacking this thread to make it a soap box of idea. When that happens... posts like : "Here is my issue" begin to show up and before you know it you have 50 pages of complaints just stacking on top of each other. I did not create this thread to promote complaints or ideas on how DM's handle their events - ONLY here to suggest a way to streamline information pertaining to them.

Each time someone breaks off this topic and posts something relevant to how DM's operate their events pulls away from the original post and that is unfair so please stop doing that. If you feel the need to warrant an issue, please do that in your own thread because it only waters down what I am trying to convey. Please.

I apologize to any DM's if I rattled a box for player complaints. This is not my intent. Merely a suggestion to create a thread for your events. Think of it as a folder to put all your files pertaining to your event in. Merely a suggestion. ( I feel ive said it more than enough times but it seems people are skimming through the chat and just took this for another all around DM Fix-er-upper thread).

With that being said. I know some DM's understood my point and I am thankful you received it with an open mind and I do appreciate what you do.

I'd like this thread to be locked now for fear that another person will post off topic once again. Im sorry if my tone is abrupt but I'm just spent on the topic.

[DaloLorn]

From a purely information sharing point of view, I think it's important to remember that making posts to share information still takes up DM time - and the shorter the time invested in sharing the information, the more likely players are going to contact the DM directly and ask them further questions.

That makes me wonder... While I am once again no shining beacon of excellence on that front (glances fearfully at his backlog), it's been my impression that a good deal of documenting does take place behind the scenes. I wonder if making that documentation publicly visible (with perhaps some redaction as needed) might not achieve the information-sharing goal without too much of a drain on the team's time and energy.

It's extremely disheartening to consider that we have lost far more DMs than we have gained of late.

It is, really... though depending on one's definition of "of late", one may have to consider that the largest exodus of veteran DMs had very little to do with burnout or the nature of player-to-DM communication.

Each time someone breaks off this topic and posts something relevant to how DM's operate their events pulls away from the original post and that is unfair so please stop doing that. If you feel the need to warrant an issue, please do that in your own thread because it only waters down what I am trying to convey. Please.

The tides of thread derailment are a powerful thing to behold, but once they've washed over you, you are usually swept away.

[Planehopper]

Locked per OP request.