Invisible Blade - updated

[Ahku]

Hello,

just for the heck of it i created a character with the following:
Current level / Max level (x)

Ranger 6 (10)
Invisible Blade 5 (5)
Tempest 1 (5)
Dervish 1 (10)

Does this build need sneak attack to use the Invisible blades 'bleed' effect?
Also, should i use Kurkis or Daggers?

thanks for any feedback...

I did a slightly diff build (as rangers suck):
Current level / Max level (x)

Swashbuckler 6 (10) <-- for Insightful strike (+6 currently) - (plan on getting Combat Insight)!
Dervish 6 (10)
Tempest 3 (5)
Invisible Blade 1 (5) <-- will work on getting this to 5 first, then go Tempest 5, then Swashbuckler 10

and thanks for the feedback!

[Theodore01]

From the class description, i would say you need sneak attack to apply bleeding from IB. (Never tried it without a sneak class.)


There is a dagger called Pins, which can drop as loot - and a kukri in the epic shop in BG - both weapons have sneak attack as property.

Oh as dervish needs a slashing weapon - it is kukris for that build idea.

[chuck darwin]

This is taken from BGs wiki.

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Invisible_Blade


i do not believe you need sneak attack before. hope this helps.


Chuck, aka BpB

[chad878262]

Regardless, the biggest issue will be that 6 bleed damage when you do land Feint (since no HiPS) will rarely have value anyway, since DR 5/- means only 1 bleed and any more DR means 0... That said, while I do see the reasons such a build will be selected, I think in epics it will be exceedingly frustrated. While it is actually fantastic from an AC perspective, where it falls flat (as do most non-sneak dice heavy PTWF DEX builds) is damage. See below to emphasize what I mean.

AC: 10 + 10 (DEX w/ cats grace) + 3 (Tumble) + 3 (Dervish) + 2 (Tempest) + 5 (INT) + 16 (Armor, Deflection, Dodge, Natural) = 49... Then you can potentially have 1 from LoH, 1 from Protective Ward, 2 from IMA (with UMD), situationally 4 from Shield (either UMD or 1/day broaches) and/or +3 from Combat Expertise (+6 if ICE). This is fantastic AC for a PTWF character.

Damage: ~2.5 (Kukri) + 4 (EB) + 5 (INT w/ Combat Insight) = ~11.5 +3 vs. 3 favored enemies + any additional bonus weapon damage + any sneak damage (if sneak damage on weapon).

This means in epics even against FE's your damage is going to be ridiculously low. You will likely do more damage per round from Expose Weakness bleed (which DR doesn't stop) than you will even if all your attacks land. This build really does necessitate heavy use of blades of fire (which only lasts one minute at level 10 ranger) and/or wand of Flame or Frost Weapon. Doesn't mean you can't play it of course, just wanted to call out what I see as the issue. The bleed damage working without sneak dice appears to me to be a lesser issue than your ability to cause enough damage when facing epic mobs with ~3-500 HP when you're doing ~40 total damage per round.

[Ahku]

I have to agree - having DR (?/-) anything overpowered.

It should be something like the following:

DR 1-5/+1
DR 6-10/+2
DR 11-15/+3
DR 16-20/+4
DR 21+/+5

I Always thought the monsters / Foes on the server had overpowered:
Saving Bonuses
Attack Bonuses
DR
Special Abilities like See Invisibility, etc, etc, etc...

[Valefort]

Bleeding wound feats are considered sneak attack feats, ie the bleeding will trigger each time you land an attack and your target is flat-footed/flanked/couldn't see you/feinted.

[Max Hatchet]

I have to agree - having DR (?/-) anything overpowered.

It should be something like the following:

DR 1-5/+1
DR 6-10/+2
DR 11-15/+3
DR 16-20/+4
DR 21+/+5

I Always thought the monsters / Foes on the server had overpowered:
Saving Bonuses
Attack Bonuses
DR
Special Abilities like See Invisibility, etc, etc, etc...

I think the monsters should be stronger and more difficult

invisible blade is fine - the DR is just a drawback on some monsters thats all.

I dont think every single ability should work perfectly across every single enemy

limitations in character ability allow for more tactics and a need for balanced parties...

[c2k]

I Always thought the monsters / Foes on the server had overpowered:
Saving Bonuses
Attack Bonuses
DR
Special Abilities like See Invisibility, etc, etc, etc...

With the exception of a few, I think the monsters on this server are underpowered.

[Max Hatchet]

I Always thought the monsters / Foes on the server had overpowered:
Saving Bonuses
Attack Bonuses
DR
Special Abilities like See Invisibility, etc, etc, etc...

With the exception of a few, I think the monsters on this server are underpowered.

Agreed. But the server is moving in the right direction

The new-ish low-ish level automaton dungeon under the graveyard mausolem is a good challenge - the monsters are tough and have a variety of abilities that can catch you out

[Ahku]

I remember when I first logged onto this server i wanted to make a level 1 wizard....

No army of summed creatures, no fighter levels for HD or AB...just a plain 'ol wizard...

and he died, and died, and died, and, died, and died, and died, and died...yada, yada, yada...

haven't tried once since.

none of his spells ever seemed to work (charm, hold, sleep), or the monsters always saved or were immune, etc...

so much for a PNP wizard on a server...lol