Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2020)

[gedweyignasia]

I think I had to nerf the Hilltop ruins mimic, because it was misconfigured. I don't remember.

Edit: There were two kinds of mimics in Hilltop. There was one that was always a mimic (never a chest), which was tuned to be pretty hard. It's no longer there, because it used a dangerous mimic template that could deprive players of their items if the server crashed. There's another mimic that can spawn as a chest. It was previously tuned a little high (not as high as the other one), and is presently an appropriate CR.

[Steve]

Hurray for Greater Loot!

I was wondering: for such bounties made available, shall the Encounters (mobs/bosses) on the way to such treasures be upgraded in difficulty and challenge, as well?

[Valefort]

No plan for that atm, some variance might happen sporadically but I don't think the challenges will be made more difficult. This rebalance fulfills two objectives that are linked : preventing low level areas looting and actually using loot (because its quality will improve overall in epics) instead of selling many items to buy things in the epic shops.

[yyj]

This seems like the best way to implement and deploy this update.

Props to dev team. Here's hoping that life allows for me to try it out soon.

[Lockonnow]

now it fit more for the curse that can Eraser special propertis on the item i have see the most evil curse take it's couse of action and it is not a curse that sould take lightly

[Steve]

No plan for that atm, some variance might happen sporadically but I don't think the challenges will be made more difficult. This rebalance fulfills two objectives that are linked : preventing low level areas looting and actually using loot (because its quality will improve overall in epics) instead of selling many items to buy things in the epic shops.

Well, at least then I can hope that once a server split is implemented, there will be an opportunity to add more difficult Areas.

I will make one further note in the subject: I hope that in the behind-closed-doors discussion had by Staff, that someone mentioned how much psychological research shows people value what they must “pay” for, or what is scarce. Thus, should Loot become far easier to attain, not because or through a challenge but because of greater availability, said Loot gain will shortly lose its value (one perfect example on BGTSCC is the greater increase of mithral armors, where the value of such armor has completely dropped out).

Maybe that is the desire behind the design: make good Loot easy to get so essentially Players stop spending so much time on trying to find/acquire good Items. And I’m not really arguing against that.

But what does raise some alarm is how many Players that enjoy adventuring for Lootz, will quickly become bored and move on from the game, because of fewer challenges.

For what it’s worth....(lol, is that an unintentional pun?!?)

[chad878262]

The changes we are looking at should not be such that all of the sudden you'll be finding an epic item every other chest you open if you're in a CR27+ area. Your concerns are valid Steve, and we will need to keep a close eye on it, but overall the differences are more than likely that epic areas will have folks finding more greater items over copper rings and empty stein's. Epic drops will still be quite rare.

Also, to be honest the majority of players anymore seems to be looking to make enough gold to buy epic shop gear anyway. So loot is really going to continue mostly being about selling to vendor or Mudd with a very rare item being worthy of attempting to sell via merchant RP, be it on the forums or in game.

[Steve]

Yeah, it is true: everyone wants to slam their fists upon their keyboard when visiting the Vault of the Dead and finding 2 steins and a book about crafting possibilities that don't exist on BGTSCC. So, a reduction of that is pretty great, even if it was just that!

Maybe it's just me, but epic gear at the NPC merchants isn't all that interesting. I mean, it is good in that there are a lot of +4 stuff now, readily and consistently available in a more democratic way, but...what really is far more interesting is the chaotic surprises that that the RIG creates. Randomness, surprises, that which we cannot calculate for, is truly the most rewarding of all. Am I wrong?

Which brings me to this: if you guys are THIS AWESOME, that you can improve upon the Loot Generation for the Server, where is your magic on the subject of Crafting & Enchanting?!?

[chad878262]

Which brings me to this: if you guys are THIS AWESOME, that you can improve upon the Loot Generation for the Server, where is your magic on the subject of Crafting & Enchanting?!?

***My opinion and not a staff statement*** (while this should always be considered the case, I feel it warrants a reminder before I say this.

Based on what I have seen over the years crafting will never get done for one simple reason. Agreement can't be reached about what the right way to implement crafting is. This causes a lot of back and forth and to this point anyone who has worked on crafting has basically given up. There are those on staff that don't ever want to see crafting implemented as well as those that do and those that don't care one way or the other. However, if it were to get in there is the issue of further power creep as you discuss making issues with rebalancing PvE. Likewise there is the issue of crafted items having no value because it's not as good as what you can get in loot/vendors.

So IMO crafting is a pipe dream for BG, for better or worse. I may be proven wrong in the long run, and that wouldn't upset me (Tarent Nefzen, my Master Alchemist has Craft Magic Arms and Armor as well as Craft Wonderous Items feats and also took all of the enchantment crafting spells that were in game for Rasael's system that never got finalized/implemented.) I just think based on what I've seen it isn't something that anyone should hold their breath for.

[Ariella]

Which brings me to this: if you guys are THIS AWESOME, that you can improve upon the Loot Generation for the Server, where is your magic on the subject of Crafting & Enchanting?!?

***My opinion and not a staff statement*** (while this should always be considered the case, I feel it warrants a reminder before I say this.

Based on what I have seen over the years crafting will never get done for one simple reason. Agreement can't be reached about what the right way to implement crafting is. This causes a lot of back and forth and to this point anyone who has worked on crafting has basically given up. There are those on staff that don't ever want to see crafting implemented as well as those that do and those that don't care one way or the other. However, if it were to get in there is the issue of further power creep as you discuss making issues with rebalancing PvE. Likewise there is the issue of crafted items having no value because it's not as good as what you can get in loot/vendors.

So IMO crafting is a pipe dream for BG, for better or worse. I may be proven wrong in the long run, and that wouldn't upset me (Tarent Nefzen, my Master Alchemist has Craft Magic Arms and Armor as well as Craft Wonderous Items feats and also took all of the enchantment crafting spells that were in game for Rasael's system that never got finalized/implemented.) I just think based on what I've seen it isn't something that anyone should hold their breath for.

Just make the crafting components have the same drop rate as the equivalent item. Within the same limitation of what's already collectable, then crafting becomes about variety instead of power creeping . But you are right it's been in the making for like 10 years, odds of it ever happening are pretty low.

[Hoihe]

Which brings me to this: if you guys are THIS AWESOME, that you can improve upon the Loot Generation for the Server, where is your magic on the subject of Crafting & Enchanting?!?

***My opinion and not a staff statement*** (while this should always be considered the case, I feel it warrants a reminder before I say this.

Based on what I have seen over the years crafting will never get done for one simple reason. Agreement can't be reached about what the right way to implement crafting is. This causes a lot of back and forth and to this point anyone who has worked on crafting has basically given up. There are those on staff that don't ever want to see crafting implemented as well as those that do and those that don't care one way or the other. However, if it were to get in there is the issue of further power creep as you discuss making issues with rebalancing PvE. Likewise there is the issue of crafted items having no value because it's not as good as what you can get in loot/vendors.

So IMO crafting is a pipe dream for BG, for better or worse. I may be proven wrong in the long run, and that wouldn't upset me (Tarent Nefzen, my Master Alchemist has Craft Magic Arms and Armor as well as Craft Wonderous Items feats and also took all of the enchantment crafting spells that were in game for Rasael's system that never got finalized/implemented.) I just think based on what I've seen it isn't something that anyone should hold their breath for.

Just make the crafting components have the same drop rate as the equivalent item. Within the same limitation of what's already collectable, then crafting becomes about variety instead of power creeping . But you are right it's been in the making for like 10 years, odds of it ever happening are pretty low.

I'm in the camp that crafting should focus less on adventuring and use for adventuring, but rather in encouraging and supporting roleplay outside and around adventuring. I've tried two NWN1 servers that followed 2 conflicting philosophies on crafting: one had nearly every crafting component be derived from drops by powerful monsters and had resources hidden in boss rooms. There, crafting wasn't really beneficial for playing characters focused around non-adventurous life, and even crafting-specialist characters ended up just PvE grinding their resources out.

Another server had the vast majority of resources either be available in logical locations, or able to be grown by the players themselves. Rare resources did require adventure companies to acquire them - but those resources were essentially capstone items for late-game gear rather than the brunt of what crafters would make. As a further added bonus, it had settlements have an economy - they needed certain resources, items; exported others. Patrolling the roads between the settlements had an impact on export/import items, which could be circumvented by having a player sell directly to an NPC representing that settlement's local market (and in case of surplus, purchase).

A crafting system based on the second server, especially more in line of "settlement demands" over "adventurer demands" would be neat, and encourage RP around the various settlements.

[Steve]

It wasn’t my intentions to take this thread into another topic. I was just poking for fun. Sorry!

KEEP ON TOPIC!! Cheers.

[RoseMiriel]

I love the new idea's for the chests yay better chance of great loot! and mimics, mimics are like the best! *drool*^^

Though I'm personally against the hit to being in low lvl dungeons even with my lvl 30.

I personally enjoy when as a low lvl people join me with a high lvl or i sometimes like joining low lvls in a area giving them a buff or what not, but with the CR hit to treasure i'll be getting less which will bite.

It feels more like another OOC nuisance like party the more players past 6 the less exp you get, which rely bugs me as it causes people to leave cause of xp not rp if we could do away with that as well that would be a dream.

I of course won't stop joining low lvls or vise versa though it'll probably just keep me out of the low lvl dungeon treasure hunting, though i'll miss randomly running into low lvls and getting some rp that way.

Hope I don't sound ungrateful. I also see what your doing there with it as some people just prefer the high lvls bugger off.^^

[gedweyignasia]

I personally enjoy when as a low lvl people join me with a high lvl or i sometimes like joining low lvls in a area giving them a buff or what not, but with the CR hit to treasure i'll be getting less which will bite.

To clarify, this will not affect the loot they get from that adventure, just yours.

[Winterborne]

I am so excited for this change <3