Feint is not working as described

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SandTrout
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:52 am
Location: College Station, TX

Feint is not working as described

Unread post by SandTrout »

I have rolled up a feinting character, and the feat is not working as described. The DC for a successful feint is variable on the same mob within the same round.

https://gyazo.com/7307e7cc70b803587503614739ab05e4

Specifically in the linked example, I make two attempts against the same mob:

The first Rolls a natural 20+19 for a total of 39, and *misses*.

The second rolls a 19+19 for a total of 38, and hits.

It seems that the mobs are adding BAB+Spot+1d20 or something to get their Feint DC, which is not in line with the description and is pretty damned brutal in terms of attempting to feint anything.
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SandTrout
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:52 am
Location: College Station, TX

Re: Feint is not working as described

Unread post by SandTrout »

Nathaniel wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:02 pm Target DC: d20 + Base Attack Bonus + Total Spot skill + Other bonuses
This is not as described and also seems excessive in terms of establishing a DC. As described, the DC should only = BAB + Total Spot + Other bonuses. The additional D20 to the DC is the error.
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Kitunenotsume
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Re: Feint is not working as described

Unread post by Kitunenotsume »

It's the same feat as used in Vanilla, AFAIK, it hasn't been adjusted by the server: https://nwn2.fandom.com/wiki/Feint

Per P&P [link], It is indeed a Bluff check opposed by a Spot* check modified by BAB and intelligence. Use of the term of DC is technically erroneous.

*P&P uses Sense Motive, NWN2 uses Spot due to mechanical implications.
Last edited by Kitunenotsume on Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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SandTrout
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:52 am
Location: College Station, TX

Re: Feint is not working as described

Unread post by SandTrout »

I guess I'd like an adjustment to the description at least, because the feat description does not match the function.
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VillageGreenWitch
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Re: Feint is not working as described

Unread post by VillageGreenWitch »

Using feint on BGTSCC is similar to using stealth here:
You'll need to devote everything possible to feint (maxed skill, racial bonus, classes with bluff bonus, Tale Teller background, Silver Palm, negotiator, skill focus bluff, charisma bonus and most importantly, whatever item you can grab with +bluff) to be successful.
And as soon as you encounter a monsters or pc with spot you'll see your feint failing nevertheless.
The described formula means that (according to my experience in the last years) you need bluff at least in high sixties to mid seventies to reliably (as in “half of the attempts or more“) feint monsters up to low epic areas (I've no idea about areas with a higher CR than trolls as I avoid them.)
The way feint works also means that you should not rely on it exclusively, as even wirh 80+ feint you will be out of luck in some areas.
You should, if possible, pick something like knockdown, blinding strike, HIPS or at least a weapon with a “on hit: daze, hold, stun, blind“ property to give you an additional edge.

Even with the feint formula being VERY much in favour of your opponent you can be successful and have fun playing.
It's just dependent on a few good items and your build.
For a basic equipment selection you should definitely see the Seven Suns and look out for the “of the fence“ items.
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