Thief acrobat - a build challenge

[VillageGreenWitch]

Greetings,

I am pondering over a new character and would really like to build me a thief acrobat.
That class intrigues me from a mechanical point of view just as much as from the RP that comes with it.

I know that it is much better suited for rangers and fighters and bards, but I would like to build a rogue with that class.

Requirements

race
human (or if not possible with a human, then tiefling)

attributes
all at 10 or higher

classes
Rogue-based
full levels of Thief Acrobat
no AK/WoD

feats
feint (and ~10d6 sneak or more)
at least HitS (HiPS preferred)
darkvision from race or class, not from item
PTWF
Epic Dodge
martial weapons and shield proficiency

skills
at least ~320 points, 350+ preferred

That's close to impossible to achieve, I know - which is why I labelled it as a challenge.

Hoping for some ideas I haven't had, yet. *crossing fingers*

[Planehopper]

I believe I did something close with rogue/ta/whirling dervish/sd.

I'll look when I'm back at my computer to see if it checks all your boxes. Mine was a hin, and I took exotic weapon prof so it should work as human with martial.

Misses the skill points (ends at 294 i think), martial comes at 18, and doesn't have feint, though there is room in epic levels to shuffle. Im sure it could be optimized. I suck at such things.

[Ewe]

If you're willing to go Dwarf you can make the best TA in the game.

[MrSmith]

If you're willing to go Dwarf you can make the best TA in the game.

How? I did a TA dip last month on a new character and I found the PrC to be very strong, so I am curious.

Cheers!

[VDub]

https://nwn2db.com/build/?335564

That's a tough one. I fell 2d6 short of the 10d6 requirement. Checked all other boxes.

[VillageGreenWitch]

I believe I did something close with rogue/ta/whirling dervish/sd.

I'll look when I'm back at my computer to see if it checks all your boxes. Mine was a hin, and I took exotic weapon prof so it should work as human with martial.

Misses the skill points (ends at 294 i think), martial comes at 18, and doesn't have feint, though there is room in epic levels to shuffle. Im sure it could be optimized. I suck at such things.

I tried that approach and indeed it lacks room for some things that I consider crucial - most glaring miss is feint, I simply need it.

If you're willing to go Dwarf you can make the best TA in the game.

Although I don't plan thic character to become a dwarf, I'm rather curious to hear the idea.

https://nwn2db.com/build/?335564

That's a tough one. I fell 2d6 short of the 10d6 requirement. Checked all other boxes.

I like that approach. And since there is serious room for adjustment towards my preferences (able learner, wf and ws kukri can be skipped in favour of a few bluff-boosting skills, for example) ....
... nice idea, thank you!

[Rhifox]

I like that approach. And since there is serious room for adjustment towards my preferences (able learner, wf and ws kukri can be skipped in favour of a few bluff-boosting skills, for example) ....

There's a kukri that has both on it (kukri of balance), so those can be safely dropped, yeah.

[VDub]

I like that approach. And since there is serious room for adjustment towards my preferences (able learner, wf and ws kukri can be skipped in favour of a few bluff-boosting skills, for example) ....

There's a kukri that has both on it (kukri of balance), so those can be safely dropped, yeah.

I have 2 Cutting Star, Epics. It's what I had in my head while building. Getting that extra 2d6 sneak is hard to do.

[Rhifox]

If you reorder some levels around and take out the feats you mentioned, you can get 10d6 sneak. (also added in skill focus bluff)

Mind that skills might need to be reconsidered, I didn't recalculate those to account for the change in level order.

[Anno Nymus]

Hello!

Here is mine input, a bit different, using Tiefling and assassin...

That is... if it is OK to mix and match sneak and death attack... but from what I've read, death attack seems to be superior to sneak attack and stacks completely for all purposes...

Also there is a note on skill points and INT...

https://nwn2db.com/build/?335572

[EasternCheesE]

Hello!

Here is mine input, a bit different, using Tiefling and assassin...

That is... if it is OK to mix and match sneak and death attack... but from what I've read, death attack seems to be superior to sneak attack and stacks completely for all purposes...

Also there is a note on skill points and INT...

https://nwn2db.com/build/?335572

On BGTSCC, you only get 1d6 of death attack as assassin, all other nd6 go as regular sneak attack. 1d6 is to allow that paralyze effect. Yeah, it stacks with sneak attack, so you can consider assassin death attacks being sneak attacks.

[EasternCheesE]

I like that approach. And since there is serious room for adjustment towards my preferences (able learner, wf and ws kukri can be skipped in favour of a few bluff-boosting skills, for example) ....

There's a kukri that has both on it (kukri of balance), so those can be safely dropped, yeah.

I have 2 Cutting Star, Epics. It's what I had in my head while building. Getting that extra 2d6 sneak is hard to do.

There is Reili's belt of mischef that gives feint. So, if you plan to use it, you can free up two feats (CE and feint).

[Anno Nymus]

On BGTSCC, you only get 1d6 of death attack as assassin, all other nd6 go as regular sneak attack. 1d6 is to allow that paralyze effect. Yeah, it stacks with sneak attack, so you can consider assassin death attacks being sneak attacks.

Ah, so would that mean, that with Epic Precision and against crit immune targets, if you had 4 death attack dices, you only get 1 that does full damage, and the other 3 would do half? Also with Manyshot, only 1 dice would apply to both arrows?

Or, better asked, all but first death attack given by class are normal sneak attacks like from Guild Thief and alike?

Or, you meant that only one of those dices "carries" a paralyze effect, but all do full damage against crit immune targets (with Epic Precision ofc) and apply to both arrows in Manyshot?

[EasternCheesE]

"Or, better asked, all but first death attack given by class are normal sneak attacks like from Guild Thief and alike?"
I guess, this one is shortest explanation and it's totally correct.
You get 1d6 death attack on your first assassin level, all following ones are sneak attacks. It was made so since manyshot getting death attack was considered as imbalance, so it didn't target to nerf sneak stabbers, it's a secondary effect.

[VillageGreenWitch]

I have 2 Cutting Star, Epics. It's what I had in my head while building. Getting that extra 2d6 sneak is hard to do.

I never plan a build with non-buyable epic items in mind.
Won't work out unless you concentrate on constant lootgrinding past level 30 to either be lucky and aquire the needed item(s) or find something that you can trade for said item(s).
And while this may appeal to some it does not to me.

Hello!

Here is mine input, a bit different, using Tiefling and assassin...

That is... if it is OK to mix and match sneak and death attack... but from what I've read, death attack seems to be superior to sneak attack and stacks completely for all purposes...

Also there is a note on skill points and INT...

https://nwn2db.com/build/?335572

First off: I feel honoured that you dedicated your first post on this forum to this challenge, thank you.
Second: welcome to the forum (and perhaps to BGTSCC, too? Cannot remember to have seen your player login before. )
Third: Nice idea, with some room for improvement (able learner is unnecessary with better class distribution, blind fight is not bad but arguable, the bluff skill is waaay too low for a feinter on BGT, the skill points are way low for my liking, class prerequisites are not fulfilled (TA needs 10 ranks of Escape Artist, too) . . . )
In the end you prove my impression that it is quite hard to pull off a "viable" build with those restrictions.
Thank you for your effort and input.


I had another idea myself, in the meantime:



actually has 354 skill points (the TA-standin Elite Commando has only 4 instead of 6)

problems:
Misses Silver Palm and Negotiator (could swap out SF Hide & MS for those, though - losing 3 hide/MS but gaining +4 bluff)

misses HIPS (and I am not convinced that HitS with 1 second delay would do the trick)

misses Blinding Strike (I could swap out one of the Great DEXes, but would need a +4 DEX item them)

terrible will save, of course

low HP for a melee-no-real-HIPS-fighter


Thoughts on that?
I'm especially interested to hear peoples' thought on HitS (with delay) on epic levels. Is it viable?