Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2020)

[yyj]

If you mean those 4 chests in goblin lake (not lower into it), i agree, those kept giving me ~40 gold for a pretty long time too while i still was in their CR margin to get 40-50 xp.

Yes, I think only at level 5 they gave me loot, after that just 20-30~ gold.

[gedweyignasia]

Character level is 10, but I noticed goblin lake stopped giving loot since level 8 (while the area was still giving like 48-51 exp)

This is an issue we are aware of and intend to address. In my mind, it is the biggest flaw with the current loot system. I'm sorry that your experience is suffering in the meantime.

[Reckeo]

Late to the party here, only recently returned to the game and found myself not getting any loot at all.

Then it hit me like a lightning bolt "Oh, they must have changed it again".

So, long story short, I'm not going to go on and on about why I think I have a solution, or even dip into a series of questions as to 'why the changes'.

I thoroughly enjoyed the addition of instanced chests, still recalling the days of legally questionable PVP over chests. Glad those days are gone!

The problem I now have, is that the restrictions have prevented my characters from getting loot at all. Yeah, I was notorious for late night solo loot runs when player numbers were low, or if I just felt like knocking a few monster heads together and having a relaxing run at it all, going back to town to sell off the junk, and calling it a night feeling I kept the little fantasy realm a wee bit safer from that evil beholder just outside Candlekeep (or insert any random dungeon monster).

This seems a bit 'forced', I had read that 'this is supposed to be party based' etc etc.

Ok! That's cool. Take my hat when I leave then? And I won't btw, I've been an intermittent gamer for some time, leaving the server, coming back on and on like an abusive relationship I just can't stay away from because we love each other at the end of the day. Please don't take ANYTHING I say as sarcasm/insult, I think you all do a great job. So why am I saying this?

Because the inner rebel hears all this, and now understands that if I wish to continue my preferred playstyle of dungeon smashing/casual looting, I just have to roll toons specifically designed for those areas (for example, a ranger/rogue built with a hatred of all things kobold to run kobold loot runs), figure out the level cap for the chests in the area, and utilize the experience off option to stay within range so I can continue doing what I enjoyed the most from this server.

Meta as it can get. Some of my best experiences were when I was soloing a dungeon for the 'phat lewtz' only to stumble into other adventurers and partying on. Never forget the time we left the dead body of the selfish treasure hunter by the river outside of the Minotaur Maze. Classic. Fun. And we kept his share.

Fun being the key word. This restriction takes some of that away and creates a narrow alleyway through which playstyle is now not being 'encouraged', but rather enforced.

He who controls the loot, controls the universe!

***EDIT FOR CLARIFICATION***

Example: My level 6 Aasimar Paladin is in Kobolds, receiving 35 XP per Kobold, 44 per Bladeling, and only receives gold from chests. Oddly enough, from an RP stand point, due to the nature of Paladin (old school AD&D here), I am ok with this. However, it could be a problem if my character did depend on the loot for upgrading gear or getting better equipment. He can 'solo', but he is at risk of falling if I am careless. This does require delicate balancing of playstyle, which is rewarding in it's own regard. I'm not sure if the level cut off for chests in Kobolds is 6, or 7. If it is 6, but due to Aasimar being considered +1, this would be putting a loot limitation on races that have this mechanic in place. Not sure if it's fair or not, or if it's even accurate, just seeking clarification as it dawned on me after my initial post.


I didn't want my above post to imply I am simply 'meta'. If I did ever roll a low level character for being a 'dungeon delver', I would RP them as such, and probably not be very well liked by other RP'ers for being a selfish grubby grubberson. Not all of my characters are this way.

[Snarfy]

Late to the party here, only recently returned to the game and found myself not getting any loot at all.

Then it hit me like a lightning bolt "Oh, they must have changed it again".

So, long story short, I'm not going to go on and on about why I think I have a solution, or even dip into a series of questions as to 'why the changes'.

I thoroughly enjoyed the addition of instanced chests, still recalling the days of legally questionable PVP over chests. Glad those days are gone!

The problem I now have, is that the restrictions have prevented my characters from getting loot at all. Yeah, I was notorious for late night solo loot runs when player numbers were low, or if I just felt like knocking a few monster heads together and having a relaxing run at it all, going back to town to sell off the junk, and calling it a night feeling I kept the little fantasy realm a wee bit safer from that evil beholder just outside Candlekeep (or insert any random dungeon monster).

This seems a bit 'forced', I had read that 'this is supposed to be party based' etc etc.

I too enjoyed having the ability to just kick back, head to whichever dungeon tickled my fancy, and not have to worry about finding a party or consulting a CR chart beforehand. I've beaten the horse to death on how OOC the whole thing feels now, and while I've run/tested my "CR appropriate" zones countless times, and found some spiffy loot, the rewards aren't enticing enough for me to keep going back to those 7 or 8 areas. I've nearly come to a full stop on exploring/looting, only occasionally running through a few zones with unlocked containers(which were unaffected by the changes) when the urge happens to strike. And when those rare opportunities to party up and go raid those other 7 or 8 CR appropriate not-soloable dungeons arise, I usually take a pass.

Meta as it can get. Some of my best experiences were when I was soloing a dungeon for the 'phat lewtz' only to stumble into other adventurers and partying on. Never forget the time we left the dead body of the selfish treasure hunter by the river outside of the Minotaur Maze. Classic. Fun. And we kept his share.

Fun being the key word. This restriction takes some of that away and creates a narrow alleyway through which playstyle is now not being 'encouraged', but rather enforced.

+1. Fun is absolutely the key word here. Mind you, I wouldn't go so far as to say playstyle is being enforced, rather than aspects of it have been de-incentivized. Whether or not people want to solo, or party up(permitting they can even find such) and have the full BG experience, everyone should have the freedom to do that. While there are some benefits to the loot changes, I think having less areas to visit overall(while experiencing some sense of IC-treasure-finding-normalcy) is definitely less fun than being able to simply turn off the meta/ooc aspects of our brains and just "go adventure".

[matelener]

Couple of ideas for loot enhancement:

- Add all epic blueprints to the loot system
- Greatly improve chances of higher tier items - some items simply never drop even for people playing for years.
- Introduce new resource: "luck". It's capped at some number, replenishes with time (and/or RP xp) and enhances loot rolls even more. Opening chests lowers character's "luck". A character with no "luck" can of course still loot but without the bonus.

And nerf mimics or at least soften their CR scaling for lower levels.

[ARHicks00]

Been talking with a friend.

They have a level 13 character with 21 AB and 31 AC.

Quite high stats, yeah?

Went to do gnoll caves and ran into a mimic.

After using Rage for more AB, she could only hit the mimic on 16 and above. And the mimic consistently hit her for 20-25

Had to drink 2 potions of Heal.

Ran into another in batiri mines and 2 more potions of heal down the drain.

---

Meanwhile me at level 30, with 40 tumble mod, with acrobatic skill mastery, with 60 AC (with touch ac in 40s and uncanny dodge) and 30 reflex, 24 dex, evasion...

run into a mimic at serpent hills.

You'd think with my stats, mimics couldnt entangle me since you know, very high stats specifically about avoiding being touched and slipping away in case of touch and even being surprised doesnt take those away.



One cannot help but wonder that the devs want one to not even bother with looting and consequently logging in at all when there arent people guaranteed to provide rp.

Also see this...


https://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=443&t=74857

[MrSmith]

Couple of ideas for loot enhancement:

- Introduce a new resource: "luck". It's capped at some number, replenishes with time (and/or RP xp), and enhances loot rolls even more. Opening chests lowers the character's "luck". A character with no "luck" can of course still loot but without the bonus.

This is a good idea... But I opine "Loot Rebalance" is a noble effort to address one symptom of the problem: Baldur's Gate economy.

The Baldur's Gate economy has four components: Labor, Goods, Services, and Rewards.

Labor: The arduous physical or mental exertion to secure capital gains in the form of Gold, Goods, or Rewards.

• Labor in the wild:

• Adventuring ("loot runs")
  Manufacturing (Wands and Potions)
  RP

Key Point: Players control their labor. More labor equals more capital gains.

Loot Rebalance efforts are focused on Labor, and more specifically on Adventuring. So, no matter how balanced the loot table is in the long run, the root problem will remain because goods are price fixed at the point of sale by NPC vendors.

Goods: The production of all primary goods is BGTSCC-server controlled, including the identification of any requisite skills, feats, and equipment players' must possess to create consumables as a service. Goods consist of three basic groups - Equipment, Consumables, and Novelty.
Equipment
• Most equipment is acquired via services with gold, or via rewards with RP, or via loot with adventuring
• Rare equipment is acquired via loot or via services (as a trade) and rarely sold for gold.

Consumables
• Consumables enhance the user and are broken into Five categories
o

• Spells
  o Wands
  o Potions
  o Scrolls
  o Item-based (Healing Kits, Item w/ Spell Use per Day, Dusty Tomes, Specific Gems)

Novelty
• Novelties are broken into Four categories
o

• Books
  o Outfits
  o Crafting components
  o Items commonly referred to as “junk”

Key Points:
• Goods are available and generally accessible, rare equipment being the exception.
• Once available, Players control whether to acquire goods.

Services:
• Skills-based profiteering (wand and potion making, high appraisal proxy-buyers).
• Player Merchants
• NPC Storefronts
• Mudd’s Auction

Rewards:
• DM actions resulting in capital gains.


The single, most effective way to address the Baldur's Gate economy as a whole is to remove the restrictive practice of price controls and allow NPC merchants to use a character's skills (appraisal, bluff, diplomacy, etc.) to ascertain the player's best price. Yes, players would have more funds on hand, which could lead to the devaluation of gold and price inflation. However, these phenomena already exist. 1) Most Player Merchants only accept trades and not gold for rare and wondrous items found via loot runs. This fact will not change nor will it make any future economy any worse. 2) Currently, the relative cost of consumables, i.e. 10 Heal Pots, routinely exceeds the cost of durable goods, i.e. EB 4 Weapon on the auction house.

While I have not updated this list for some time, I have all of this equipment and then some... I would ask you to review my stores by item for no other reason than to estimate the total assessed value.

https://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=74033

Then, consider the fact that if I sold everything on this list and more (all of the items I did not yet list) for 1,400 gold pieces each... I would have just enough gold to purchase the +4 Wisdom Helmet in Candlekeep (~700 bags). 500 items x 1,400 = 700 bags.

Thank you for the consideration.

Cheers!

[Reckeo]

The more I contemplate the implications of 'loot rebalance' the more and more it just appears to be a mechanical implementation of 'accessability adjustment'.

The server will now favor financial and better loot distribution towards players who have a core base of players/friends around their same CR level (and also the same time frame for playing) as opposed to those who do not. This means that guilds, groups of RL friends, and other 'groups' will be favored over those who are independent or solo oriented, and this will be expressed through the 'rebalanced' loot system.

Seems to me like a control maneuver designed to favor the ones who pushed to see this implemented. Like politicians voting on giving themselves raises. Hear hear!

[Tanlaus]

The more I contemplate the implications of 'loot rebalance' the more and more it just appears to be a mechanical implementation of 'accessability adjustment'.

The server will now favor financial and better loot distribution towards players who have a core base of players/friends around their same CR level (and also the same time frame for playing) as opposed to those who do not. This means that guilds, groups of RL friends, and other 'groups' will be favored over those who are independent or solo oriented, and this will be expressed through the 'rebalanced' loot system.

Seems to me like a control maneuver designed to favor the ones who implemented it. Like politicians voting on giving themselves raises. Hear hear!

I disagree with your premise.

Primarily the loot rebalance was implemented to keep high level players from blowing through no risk low level dungeons to pick up an easy 15 - 20k.

Not a problem? Well it was an RP problem to lower lever characters working their way through a challenging area just to have a solo epic character blow through destroying everything in their path for the easy loot.

So honestly where you are incorrect is in assuming the change is all mechanics without RP consideration. It was motivated by RP consideration, or inconsideration of the player base.

That being said there is an issue around level 10ish where loot drops off in areas that are still challenging. It’s a known issue and will be fixed.

There’s also consideration for raising the floor of gold in epic chests, so you won’t randomly get 37 gold from like the frost Giant King or anything in the Greypeaks.

Also, when the change was implemented, the chance of finding epic items especially in higher tier chests was raised considerably. And many epic areas- it was discovered- had lower tiered chests than they should have so that was adjusted to.

So there has been plenty of benefit to go with the pain of no more risk free loot runs.

[Reckeo]

The more I contemplate the implications of 'loot rebalance' the more and more it just appears to be a mechanical implementation of 'accessibility adjustment'.

The server will now favor financial and better loot distribution towards players who have a core base of players/friends around their same CR level (and also the same time frame for playing) as opposed to those who do not. This means that guilds, groups of RL friends, and other 'groups' will be favored over those who are independent or solo oriented, and this will be expressed through the 'rebalanced' loot system.

Seems to me like a control maneuver designed to favor the ones who implemented it. Like politicians voting on giving themselves raises. Hear hear!

"I disagree with your premise."

Ok.

"Primarily the loot rebalance was implemented to keep high level players from blowing through no risk low level dungeons to pick up an easy 15 - 20k."

High level players can no longer easily obtain gold without putting themselves into CR specific zones that are risky for them. It's like telling an Olympic swimmer they aren't permitted in the shallow end of the swimming pool because it will ruin it for the kids taking swimming lessons.

"Not a problem? Well it was an RP problem to lower lever characters working their way through a challenging area just to have a solo epic character blow through destroying everything in their path for the easy loot."

Had the frequency of this particular issue increased? When I was going through an area that was lower level, and I saw other players, I would often leave and go someplace else so this wouldn't happen. I'd also utilize the player locator to see if some players had been in those areas prior to even seeing it. It's not like the server has significant over crowding issues without downtime where it may be fun to blaze through a dungeon at higher levels that once was challenging for you. You know, to see how far your character has come. You're asking a question I did not, and then answering it as though I have. Then you go on further to say.....

"So honestly where you are incorrect is in assuming the change is all mechanics without RP consideration. It was motivated by RP consideration, or inconsideration of the player base."

Thank you for being honest about how you believe my assumption was based upon something I didn't say (never mentioned anything about RP, but we'll get to that). Who specifically, is being considered, that consists of the 'player base' you are talking about? Seems like the 'friends' I mentioned.

"That being said there is an issue around level 10ish where loot drops off in areas that are still challenging. It’s a known issue and will be fixed."

This is good to know! How long has this been an issue?

"There’s also consideration for raising the floor of gold in epic chests, so you won’t randomly get 37 gold from like the frost Giant King or anything in the Greypeaks."

Ok.

"Also, when the change was implemented, the chance of finding epic items especially in higher tier chests was raised considerably. And many epic areas- it was discovered- had lower tiered chests than they should have so that was adjusted to."

"So there has been plenty of benefit to go with the pain of no more risk free loot runs."

Well, you basically confirmed that it was in fact an accessibility adjustment, and that the reasoning was because, you know, for the kids (RP justification and this 'player base' you mention, which makes me believe even more so in the 'friends', 'guilds' and 'RL buddy' comment I made).

If the problem is 'epic level toons', then why such close restraints? Maybe its a longer standing cultural issue. I remember being level 6 in kobolds and finding +2 dragon armor in a random chest, meanwhile looting on a higher level toon in a higher level area like minotaurs and looting crap. Probably why I used to go to lower level dungeons, after feeling ripped off trying higher level ones for less pay off despite the higher risk. I'm not always looking for an intense, death for reward type challenge. Sometimes its nice to know I can 'play it safe', and still get pay off without being forced to go to 'dangerous waters' so the kids (low lvls) aren't bothered.

In terms of 'RP' being the justification, seems like a weak argument to me, and extremely meta. Bilbo can start off on his adventure and find a magical sword in the chest, but if Gandalf opens it he only gets a few gold pieces. This doesn't seem a sensible solution, change the whole server, to serve the few low level characters that feel their low level dungeon adventure was ruined by an epic toon. I've had parties before and epic toons ran through for whatever reason, never ruined my experience.

This argument is also made on the premise that it's a lvl 30 going through kobolds etc, which is such an extreme it's insulting. My lvl 6 paladin can't get anything other than gold in that dungeon, although he is getting good xp. Far from level 21 or 30. So his income has to take a hit because of epic toons? Right.

Changing the lists so my higher level characters can't loot easily (even though by definition being more powerful would be easier to obtain loot from those areas), kinda does ruin it. But I guess I'm not part of this 'player base' you describe.

[Tanlaus]

The more I contemplate the implications of 'loot rebalance' the more and more it just appears to be a mechanical implementation of 'accessibility adjustment'.

The server will now favor financial and better loot distribution towards players who have a core base of players/friends around their same CR level (and also the same time frame for playing) as opposed to those who do not. This means that guilds, groups of RL friends, and other 'groups' will be favored over those who are independent or solo oriented, and this will be expressed through the 'rebalanced' loot system.

Seems to me like a control maneuver designed to favor the ones who implemented it. Like politicians voting on giving themselves raises. Hear hear!

"I disagree with your premise."

Ok.

"Primarily the loot rebalance was implemented to keep high level players from blowing through no risk low level dungeons to pick up an easy 15 - 20k."

High level players can no longer easily obtain gold without putting themselves into CR specific zones that are risky for them. It's like telling an Olympic swimmer they aren't permitted in the shallow end of the swimming pool because it will ruin it for the kids taking swimming lessons.

"Not a problem? Well it was an RP problem to lower lever characters working their way through a challenging area just to have a solo epic character blow through destroying everything in their path for the easy loot."

Had the frequency of this particular issue increased? When I was going through an area that was lower level, and I saw other players, I would often leave and go someplace else so this wouldn't happen. I'd also utilize the player locator to see if some players had been in those areas prior to even seeing it. It's not like the server has significant over crowding issues without downtime where it may be fun to blaze through a dungeon at higher levels that once was challenging for you. You know, to see how far your character has come. You're asking a question I did not, and then answering it as though I have. Then you go on further to say.....

"So honestly where you are incorrect is in assuming the change is all mechanics without RP consideration. It was motivated by RP consideration, or inconsideration of the player base."

Thank you for being honest about how you believe my assumption was based upon something I didn't say (never mentioned anything about RP, but we'll get to that). Who specifically, is being considered, that consists of the 'player base' you are talking about? Seems like the 'friends' I mentioned.

"That being said there is an issue around level 10ish where loot drops off in areas that are still challenging. It’s a known issue and will be fixed."

This is good to know! How long has this been an issue?

"There’s also consideration for raising the floor of gold in epic chests, so you won’t randomly get 37 gold from like the frost Giant King or anything in the Greypeaks."

Ok.

"Also, when the change was implemented, the chance of finding epic items especially in higher tier chests was raised considerably. And many epic areas- it was discovered- had lower tiered chests than they should have so that was adjusted to."

"So there has been plenty of benefit to go with the pain of no more risk free loot runs."

Well, you basically confirmed that it was in fact an accessibility adjustment, and that the reasoning was because, you know, for the kids (RP justification and this 'player base' you mention, which makes me believe even more so in the 'friends', 'guilds' and 'RL buddy' comment I made).

If the problem is 'epic level toons', then why such close restraints? Maybe its a longer standing cultural issue. I remember being level 6 in kobolds and finding +2 dragon armor in a random chest, meanwhile looting on a higher level toon in a higher level area like minotaurs and looting crap. Probably why I used to go to lower level dungeons, after feeling ripped off trying higher level ones for less pay off despite the higher risk. I'm not always looking for an intense, death for reward type challenge. Sometimes its nice to know I can 'play it safe', and still get pay off without being forced to go to 'dangerous waters' so the kids (low lvls) aren't bothered.

In terms of 'RP' being the justification, seems like a weak argument to me, and extremely meta. Bilbo can start off on his adventure and find a magical sword in the chest, but if Gandalf opens it he only gets a few gold pieces. This doesn't seem a sensible solution, change the whole server, to serve the few low level characters that feel their low level dungeon adventure was ruined by an epic toon. I've had parties before and epic toons ran through for whatever reason, never ruined my experience. Changing the lists so my higher level characters can't loot easily (even though by definition being more powerful would be easier to obtain loot from those areas), kinda does ruin it. But I guess I'm not part of this 'player base' you describe.

I appreciate that you’re not happy with the loot change but it’s likely going to stay.

Like I said before there are issues to be addressed, like raising the floor for higher tier chests and perhaps opening up the level range a bit, particularly in lower levels.

I don’t know what the time frame for that is but hopefully relatively soon after the server split, which pretty much takes precedence over everything else right now.

Part of the issue with loot runs is the extreme subjective variation from run to run. You might go through an area and pull a few potions and scrolls while the guy (it girl) with you opening the same chests at the same time pulls multiple epic items.

So the change happened a few months ago and there’s been an effort to track bigger data sets in terms of what people have been getting in the aggregate. The loot change was significant and will likely need tweaking, but the whole point has been to gather a few months worth of data before making any changes.

One immediate problem, which I mentioned before, is that generic +4 gear, which used to be worth quite a bit, now sells for less than +3 gear used to in many cases (amulets and boots still hold their value pretty well). So going to a high level area and pulling a bunch of +3 and/or +4 gear feels kind of disappointing now. So more frequent drops has had the effect of devaluing things.

Lastly, while you personally might check to see if an area was occupied before blowing through it, that’s not true for everyone. And while it might not have bothered you when you were lower level, that’s not true of everyone either.

Consider also that non epic characters are kind of mechanically locked out of bigger DM plots. If you’ve got epic characters involved there’s just no way to create any kind of challenge that lower level characters can contribute to. So RPing through level appropriate dungeons is kind of it for them.

Fostering an RP environment is a difficult balancing act. And there are ramifications for every decision or non-decision made in that direction. There’s no perfect scenario that is going to make everyone happy. But the thinking right now is if you weigh the player experience in a CR appropriate area against the player experience in an area well below their level the former takes precedence. I honestly do not think that is an entirely unreasonable position to take.

[Reckeo]

"I appreciate that you’re not happy with the loot change but it’s likely going to stay."

- That's not so bad, despite my colorful opposition.

"Like I said before there are issues to be addressed, like raising the floor for higher tier chests and perhaps opening up the level range a bit, particularly in lower levels."

- This. I understand the idea of a level 30 stomping around low level areas. I also do recall at level 10 going back to Kobolds to open chests (before there was even instanced looting available), and *poof* Nothing. Why? Too high level. So, move on! The difference being I suppose a level 9 could still loot there. The problem I have right now is that my level 6 Aasimar (effectively level 7) is only getting small piles of gold from chests, even on kobolds level 2, where he is met with survivability challenges appropriate to his level, where the loot is not reflective of this.

"I don’t know what the time frame for that is but hopefully relatively soon after the server split, which pretty much takes precedence over everything else right now."

- I am so confused about the 'server split'. I don't even know what's happening anymore.


"So the change happened a few months ago....will likely need tweaking, but the whole point has been to gather a few months worth of data before making any changes."

- Understandable and reasonable. Tweaking always comes after big changes, and of course requires data and player feedback.

"Lastly, while you personally might check to see if an area was occupied before blowing through it, that’s not true for everyone. And while it might not have bothered you when you were lower level, that’s not true of everyone either."

- Also understand this. Not everyone is a G.

"Consider also that non epic characters are kind of mechanically locked out of bigger DM plots. If you’ve got epic characters involved there’s just no way to create any kind of challenge that lower level characters can contribute to. So RPing through level appropriate dungeons is kind of it for them."

- I could go a little deeper into this, mostly exploring the difference between player created/controlled content through DM's vs the auto provided constant environment of the dungeons, but that's a separate discussion, though it does tend to fit into the 'player groups', and friends who have same playing times being favored, mostly because DM's want to run things for groups. The server content is something ALL players have access to, DM content not so much. I'm surprised I have epic toons at all.

"Fostering an RP environment is a difficult balancing act."

- Absolutely. Don't think I don't appreciate the work and effort on the devs....I do.

"....there are ramifications for every decision or non-decision made in that direction."

- Agreed.

"There’s no perfect scenario that is going to make everyone happy. But the thinking right now is if you weigh the player experience in a CR appropriate area against the player experience in an area well below their level the former takes precedence."

- I don't really consider myself one to decide what takes precedence, though I can see your point.

"I honestly do not think that is an entirely unreasonable position to take."

- It is reasonable, you make many valid points, and I see your side of the decision and why it makes sense.

I also understand the decision will not be reversed, which is also fine. I think if anything, the biggest part of what I was trying to get to, was maybe a more reasonable approach to what the level ranges to access the dungeons are. As previously stated, it is known that there are issues in level 10ish areas. I know I have a level 9 warrior that struggles in Cloakwood mines 1st level, gets 50 xp a kill, and.....well, just gold from the chests. I thought this was deliberately part of the change, it appears to be an inadvertent mistake that is planned on being fixed -- good. However, my level 6 paladin cannot get anything other than gold from kobolds, which, to be honest at level 6, he is not the equivalent of the extreme narration of an epic level 30 stomping through the same place. He still gets hurt, he still struggles with the traps, he can still die on the 2nd level to the magic missiles from the imps, and he has NO loot incentive to adventure there even with a party, even though the XP is good, he will not make financial gains or gain loot while doing so.

I also have two level 21 toons, that, well, I used to enjoy running through minotaurs with (getting lost etc), or the witch caves in Cloakwood. Those areas are now, well, dead zones because there is still life-risk involved (though med to low), little to no xp, and no loot gain either. I could see a level 30 stomping through there being unacceptable, but is 20 really too high? I'm not sure, I can't say.

I do know that some of my level 16 toons have little incentive to grow beyond level 16 if they will no longer be able to loot the areas they currently are able to (and still do have some close calls). The challenges are welcome, the rewards are good! But if it means at level 17 there will be a complete cut off, why would I do that when I can stay at 16 and cash in?

Just my 2 cents at this point, not trying to go on and on about the higher level stuff, I could see kobolds cutting players off at level 10 like before, or even level 8, but my level 6 paladin? That's a tough one. This combined with the issues of the '10ish' stuff, is why I poked my head out of my shell.

[ARHicks00]

The more I contemplate the implications of 'loot rebalance' the more and more it just appears to be a mechanical implementation of 'accessability adjustment'.

The server will now favor financial and better loot distribution towards players who have a core base of players/friends around their same CR level (and also the same time frame for playing) as opposed to those who do not. This means that guilds, groups of RL friends, and other 'groups' will be favored over those who are independent or solo oriented, and this will be expressed through the 'rebalanced' loot system.

Seems to me like a control maneuver designed to favor the ones who implemented it. Like politicians voting on giving themselves raises. Hear hear!

I disagree with your premise.

Primarily the loot rebalance was implemented to keep high level players from blowing through no risk low level dungeons to pick up an easy 15 - 20k.

Not a problem? Well it was an RP problem to lower lever characters working their way through a challenging area just to have a solo epic character blow through destroying everything in their path for the easy loot.

So honestly where you are incorrect is in assuming the change is all mechanics without RP consideration. It was motivated by RP consideration, or inconsideration of the player base.

That being said there is an issue around level 10ish where loot drops off in areas that are still challenging. It’s a known issue and will be fixed.

There’s also consideration for raising the floor of gold in epic chests, so you won’t randomly get 37 gold from like the frost Giant King or anything in the Greypeaks.

Also, when the change was implemented, the chance of finding epic items especially in higher tier chests was raised considerably. And many epic areas- it was discovered- had lower tiered chests than they should have so that was adjusted to.

So there has been plenty of benefit to go with the pain of no more risk free loot runs.

I am for and against you just said. You are right, a high level character shouldn’t farm low level areas to make fast cash.

I disagree on the grounds that epic level rewards are bad and combine with what i said in the last topic about pure class melee characters spend oodles amount of money to do the same thing spellcasters can do. Making 30 to 40k, but using 60k or more in items makes epic run less desirable. And that not even considering epic level equipment which 2/4ths to 3/4th of a million coins...each.

For a person to get that equipment and items, they would have to have pre-knowledge of the server. This kind of align what the guy is saying how the new rule isolate soloers and new players for older players and pre-existing clique. I AM NOT JOKING AS IT FEELS LIKE MORE LIKE BALDUR’S GATE: THE CLIQUE COAST THAN THE SWORD COAST. Maybe I am exaggerating, but it does feel like the need fo crush exploitation has lead to a lot of isolation. Basically i got mine, you better get yours because if you don’t have all the endgane equipment and item you are pretty SOL.

The other reason I disagree because what you don’t understand that by having old players farm old areas, they are likely to run into new players and mentor them both player and character wise. When I originally farmed low level areas as a cleric, I would rp and heal low level wounded players or raise the dead of fallen players who are just starting.

But that is just me.

[ARHicks00]

The more I contemplate the implications of 'loot rebalance' the more and more it just appears to be a mechanical implementation of 'accessability adjustment'.

The server will now favor financial and better loot distribution towards players who have a core base of players/friends around their same CR level (and also the same time frame for playing) as opposed to those who do not. This means that guilds, groups of RL friends, and other 'groups' will be favored over those who are independent or solo oriented, and this will be expressed through the 'rebalanced' loot system.

Seems to me like a control maneuver designed to favor the ones who pushed to see this implemented. Like politicians voting on giving themselves raises. Hear hear!

I agree. I feel like server is catering to pre-existing characters and cliques while isolating causal players like myself, solo players, and new players. I understand what it is trying to do, but without worthwhile epic treasures you are pretty much stuck between a rock and hard place.

[ARHicks00]

I appreciate that you’re not happy with the loot change but it’s likely going to stay.

Let me stop you right here. The poster was being cynical (not to be confused with being sarcastic) and was basically calling your explanation as well as the whole nerf loot thing disingenuous because by your own words it seems clique politics are at play as it seems to be oblivious or apathetic towards who is affected by this outside the pre-existing and aging population. Your attempt to explain the reason only makes it worst.

He was also saying that the reward system for doing high level content was low and had few incentives. Something I SORTA brought in another topic here.


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