The Importance of Consent -- Where is the Line Drawn?

[Xorena]

Hello everyone,

We are all here to tell stories together and have fun doing it. Naturally, a decent person would be upset to know if roleplay they have participated in had upset another player or made them reluctant to log in. This post is based on years of conversations with others since I became a member of this community in 2016. I am not telling specific stories other than my own because they are not mine to tell. (TLDR at the end)

Unfortunately, there have been some bad apples within the NWN2 community who persist in pushing the boundaries of players who have already expressed that they do not want to be involved in romance RP or have other behaviors forced upon them.

If someone continues such behavior after being told to stop, it is harassment. While some players have been temp/perma banned for harassment, some of this behavior can continue for years and years before anyone says anything, or before they are believed, or before they have evidence because they didn’t think to collect it the first time. Even after submitting the right evidence, it can take even longer until any action is taken.

Part of “mature RP” is OOC consent, regardless of the subject. The RP is not mature if someone does not want to do something and you force them to do said thing regardless of their wishes. If your “mature RP” requires baby-eating, torture, sexual situations and massacres that everyone must bend to (key phrase here), that is not mature RP. There are myriad ways to play a mature, compelling character without relying on shock value.

For example, I’ve met multiple people -- male and female presenting -- on BGTSCC who do not actively seek, or who actively avoid romance and ERP (ERP is banned on BGTSCC). In fact, the prospect of such repels some of the people I have spoken to and makes them hesitant to meet new players or even log in at all. Some players avoid creating certain types of characters because they want to avoid being hit on or do not want to be pursued for relationships (anything young, anything happy or with a bubbly personality for instance -- I quit playing my Lathander paladin for this very reason). I have talked to players who left BGTSCC because of persistent (harassing) efforts from other players.

I have talked to players who enter into an RP relationship, who think they are telling a story, only to have the other player ask OOC to meet, for phone numbers, for pictures, etc. The conversations turn to a very uncomfortable place. I have personally had someone piece together who I was in real life and showed up at my workplace unannounced. None of this is acceptable.

To be completely clear, some players do want romance or dark roleplay. There is nothing wrong with that as long as everyone is consenting and has a good time.

With that said, here are some ways to try to reduce the level of harassment that many players have seen for years.

How to communicate your discomfort with certain behaviors

1) Click on the scroll on the top hotbar (see image)

2) Type in the body of the message what you are uncomfortable with (Torture, maiming, any romance, no hitting on my character etc). Type this at the very top.

• Examples: "Under no circumstances: X, Y, Z. If your RP requires these to occur, it may be wiser to retcon the encounter, or ignore each other.”
  “No romance. Do not hit on my character” (or some variation)
  “X (or other activity) permitted in special circumstances: A - if these requirements are met, go ahead."

3) If someone is transgressing your boundaries you have every right to break character and tell them OOC to stop. If they do not stop after you tell them OOC to stop, take screenshots and progress to the “how to document and report bad behavior” section of this post.

• Example of how to tell them to stop: “Hi, I am not comfortable with that type of RP. Please right click + inspect me to view my established boundaries.”

4) Since many people do not read examines, you should send a tell asking them to stop. Screenshot their response. You need screenshots because it is often your word against theirs, and DMs will not do anything without evidence.




How to not harass people:

1) Right click + inspect every player you see. If you see a disclaimer that says “I don’t want (behavior here)", then do not do that behavior. People may not want the following things: romance or relationship RP, flirting, permanent disfigurement, kidnapping, etc. Listen to your fellow player.

2) If you are confused or want clarity, ask the other player OOC if that is the sort of RP they want.

3) Listen to the player and respect their boundaries. Do not do the behavior the player says they don’t want.

4) Please accept rejection gracefully. Do not retaliate against that player with in-character actions.


How to document and report bad behavior:

People can and do receive warnings, suspensions and bans for their behavior, but you must collect the right evidence and send a PM to the DM team.

1) You are not obligated to RP any uncomfortable scenarios. You can and should remove yourself from uncomfortable situations.

2) Keep your head. This isn’t your fault. You must tell the other person to stop or otherwise be clear that their behavior toward you is unacceptable. "No" is a complete sentence. They do not get to decide how you feel. You must OOC say that you do not want this behavior. If you do not say “no” OOC, they may justify continued behavior toward you as in-character.

3) You can withdraw your consent at any time, for any reason. If you at first believed you would be comfortable with something, and later on are not (or RP deviated from expectations) -- what matters is how you feel NOW, and not how you felt at first. Do not be afraid to communicate it. There’s no such thing as too late.

4) Unfortunately when some people do not get their way the behavior escalates and they become abusive. Be prepared. In other cases it may take several days or weeks before the behavior continues. If their behavior persists, resize the chat log and take screenshots of the in-game conversation, including you telling them to stop. Logging out when disturbed is tempting, but the DMs will do nothing without evidence.

5) Send a PM to the DM team and clearly describe what happened. Include all screenshots. You may need to host screenshots on an outside server.
6) Here is how you send a PM to the DM team:




TLDR:

If a player tells you no or to stop whatever you are doing, please respect it. Consent matters. Right click + inspect to see if they have disclaimers on what RP they want or do not want.

If you do not want romance or other RP situations, add a short message at the top of your bio. If you are uncomfortable with the RP ask the player to stop in OOC. Document all violations of your boundaries with screenshots. If they persist, report them.

[Winterborne]

I am sad you had to post this at all - I wish people were more considerate. But I applaud your open communication and as you already know you have my support.

[yyj]

Thank you for posting this Perle it's appreciated.

[Shadowspinner70]

I am sad you had to post this at all - I wish people were more considerate. But I applaud your open communication and as you already know you have my support.

+1. Beat me to it. And, before anyone gets there, Xorena isn't saying to ask for approval each time you RP with someone. Just listen to your fellow player if/when they speak up and keep an ear out.

When I was in uncomfortable situations, I didn't want to say no explicitly for fear of any kind of negative OOC reactions. Instead, I sidled away or gave the most general, one-word answers. "Nice" is one I distinctly remember giving. The issue is, people can't read minds. Some might be so wrapped up in things that they don't care. Another +1 for the advice to communicate.

And +1 to yyj, but it's enough quotes from me for now. >_>

[Steve]

A very good post with useful information. Thank you.

To add to it, the General Server Rules for BGTSCC support what has been said in the OP:

If you are uncomfortable with someone's RP, you have the right to respectfully back out of the RP. Always remain polite and courteous when doing this. If someone chooses to back away from your RP, respect their decision and let them go.

[Almarea90]

I totally agree on all points. Luckily it never happened to me and I find it disheartening there have been so many cases on the server.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Hello everyone,

We are all here to tell stories together and have fun doing it. Naturally, a decent person would be upset to know if roleplay they have participated in had upset another player or made them reluctant to log in. This post is based on years of conversations with others since I became a member of this community in 2016. I am not telling specific stories other than my own because they are not mine to tell. (TLDR at the end)

Unfortunately, there have been some bad apples within the NWN2 community who persist in pushing the boundaries of players who have already expressed that they do not want to be involved in romance RP or have other behaviors forced upon them.

If someone continues such behavior after being told to stop, it is harassment.

Here is where a huge distinction needs to be made. IC versus OOC. If someone is ICly harassing your toon, that is perfectly well within the rules. It's part of conflict RP. Now, if that moves to OOC, then (and only then) do you have a problem. To say otherwise is to not allow any evil activity on the server whatsoever.

While some players have been temp/perma banned for harassment, some of this behavior can continue for years and years before anyone says anything, or before they are believed, or before they have evidence because they didn’t think to collect it the first time. Even after submitting the right evidence, it can take even longer until any action is taken.

Part of “mature RP” is OOC consent, regardless of the subject. The RP is not mature if someone does not want to do something and you force them to do said thing regardless of their wishes. If your “mature RP” requires baby-eating, torture, sexual situations and massacres that everyone must bend to (key phrase here), that is not mature RP. There are myriad ways to play a mature, compelling character without relying on shock value.

For example, I’ve met multiple people -- male and female presenting -- on BGTSCC who do not actively seek, or who actively avoid romance and ERP (ERP is banned on BGTSCC). In fact, the prospect of such repels some of the people I have spoken to and makes them hesitant to meet new players or even log in at all. Some players avoid creating certain types of characters because they want to avoid being hit on or do not want to be pursued for relationships (anything young, anything happy or with a bubbly personality for instance -- I quit playing my Lathander paladin for this very reason). I have talked to players who left BGTSCC because of persistent (harassing) efforts from other players.

I'm going to give you a chance to clarify this point. But was you said, we are all here to tell stories. There are lines that must not be crossed, obviously. Some subjects that shouldn't be touched, and some subjects that should be handled delicately.

For instance, I had a toon a while back who went into a deep depressive episode. And I had the thought of closing out his story with him ending his life. However, I had a friend on discord who had dealt with this situation IRL, and I spoke with them about it. And I decided to have the character quietly slip away and fade out rather than commit suicide, because I felt like it would be triggering to other people.

However, your example of being "hit on" or "pursued for relationships". That's just a part of life. You can't control if someone is attracted to you and makes a pass at you IRL. Nor should you be able to control if a toon makes a pass at you in game. I have a simple rule that obviously has exceptions, but works as a rule of thumb. "Whoever takes it out of character first is in the wrong". Again, there are exceptions.

But for an example. Let's say I make a male toon. And that male toon becomes attracted to a female toon. He begins flirting with her. She ICly tells him to stop, but he's a hopeless romantic and thinks he can win her over. So he continues to flirt with her. So far, absolutely no rules have been broken, and there's been absolutely no OOC impropriety. However, if I /t the player of this toon and say something like, "I'd really like our toons to get together." Then I am in the wrong, and bordering on harassment there. But, on the other hand, if the player of the female toon /t me and says, "Don't have your toon flirt with mine", then they are trying to godmod my actions. Me personally, I'll have my toon stop flirting with them, and I'll avoid them completely, because I'll then know that the player of the female toon is unable to keep IC and OOC separate.

I have talked to players who enter into an RP relationship, who think they are telling a story, only to have the other player ask OOC to meet, for phone numbers, for pictures, etc.

At this point, immediately break contact with the person if you are uncomfortable with it. I, myself, have had to do this. Break the contact ICly, and OOCly. Block them on discord/skype if you need to. And if they continue to contact you with /t IG, take screenshots and report them.

The conversations turn to a very uncomfortable place. I have personally had someone piece together who I was in real life and showed up at my workplace unannounced. None of this is acceptable.

I don't think you'll have any argument from anyone there. I personally have had two different people threaten me over what happened in game. One person threatened over discord to come find me and kill me. Another stalked me and my wife online, and when we broke all contact threatened to find out my real identity and call the Veteran's Affairs and get my retirement and disability benefits cut off. So I understand how serious of an issue this can be.

2) Type in the body of the message what you are uncomfortable with (Torture, maiming, any romance, no hitting on my character etc). Type this at the very top.

• Examples: "Under no circumstances: X, Y, Z. If your RP requires these to occur, it may be wiser to retcon the encounter, or ignore each other.”
  “No romance. Do not hit on my character” (or some variation)
  “X (or other activity) permitted in special circumstances: A - if these requirements are met, go ahead."

If you hadn't included "hitting on my character" in your list of things, I'd have likely not even responded to this post. But the inclusion of that, to me, totally undermines your message, which I overall agree with. I'd have to trust someone a lot for them to enter into torture or maiming RP (it's very likely never going to happen). And obviously romance RP requires two people's consent, or it's not romance in the first place. However, "hitting on" someone is just a part of life. Saying, "Do not hit on my character" and then reporting them if they ICly do is godmodding, plain and simple. It's doing what you are saying others shouldn't do. It's bending others to your preferred style of RP.

How to not harass people:

1) Right click + inspect every player you see. If you see a disclaimer that says “I don’t want (behavior here)", then do not do that behavior. People may not want the following things: romance or relationship RP, flirting, permanent disfigurement, kidnapping, etc. Listen to your fellow player.

I feel like I'm belaboring this point. But including flirting in there undermines your entire argument. Again, had you kept that out, I'd have likely not even responded, or simply said, "Yeah, this can be an issue, and people need to be aware of it". But I am 100% against forcing others to RP in a way that one person wants them to.

4) Please accept rejection gracefully. Do not retaliate against that player with in-character actions.

Need some clarification here. If it's purely IC, then it's absolutely fine. If it's OOCly motivated, it's absolutely not fine. Again, that distinction needs to be made.


My final word here, is that most of what you said is already codified in the rules. Harassment can and does happen. And if it does, it needs to be reported. I've personally reported harassment on this server before, when a player began /t me simply because I had an AFK tag over my head while re-leveling my toon after an RCR, and then didn't RP with them. I took screenshots and sent them in to the DM team. I've also reported forum posts that crossed lines for me. As I said earlier, I've been threatened OOCly by psychos, one of which I sent his discord messages to the FBI.

However, your premise is "Where is the line drawn?". I believe you've drawn it too far in taking away the free will of others by your inclusion of "flirting" as a behavior that needs permission to happen. The others, you are deciding what happens to your toon. And only you should have that ability. But with flirting, you are deciding for others what they can and cannot do.

[Thaelis]

But, on the other hand, if the player of the female toon /t me and says, "Don't have your toon flirt with mine", then they are trying to godmod my actions.

Exactly what part of that is Godmodding? They're just asking you to not do something that makes them feel uncomfortable. There's 100+ characters on this server, just find someone else to romance RP with?

I've never had this problem, because romance RP doesn't really interest me. But as with anything: torture, captivity, even a simple PvP fight, if the other player doesn't find it fun just don't do it.... Pretty simple.

[Rhifox]

However, your example of being "hit on" or "pursued for relationships". That's just a part of life. You can't control if someone is attracted to you and makes a pass at you IRL. Nor should you be able to control if a toon makes a pass at you in game. I have a simple rule that obviously has exceptions, but works as a rule of thumb. "Whoever takes it out of character first is in the wrong". Again, there are exceptions.

But for an example. Let's say I make a male toon. And that male toon becomes attracted to a female toon. He begins flirting with her. She ICly tells him to stop, but he's a hopeless romantic and thinks he can win her over. So he continues to flirt with her. So far, absolutely no rules have been broken, and there's been absolutely no OOC impropriety. However, if I /t the player of this toon and say something like, "I'd really like our toons to get together." Then I am in the wrong, and bordering on harassment there. But, on the other hand, if the player of the female toon /t me and says, "Don't have your toon flirt with mine", then they are trying to godmod my actions. Me personally, I'll have my toon stop flirting with them, and I'll avoid them completely, because I'll then know that the player of the female toon is unable to keep IC and OOC separate.

If someone is expressing that they are OOCly uncomfortable with something, you stop. Flat out. You can figure out a reason why your character would break off their attraction to that character. If you continue doing something even after knowing that it's OOCly bothering another person, that's wrong.

It's not harassment to make a pass or whatever else if you aren't aware a player doesn't like it. If they tell you it bothers them OOC, you apologize and stop, no harm done. If you continue doing it despite being told it is uncomfortable for them, that is harassment.

[Hoihe]

Hello everyone,

We are all here to tell stories together and have fun doing it. Naturally, a decent person would be upset to know if roleplay they have participated in had upset another player or made them reluctant to log in. This post is based on years of conversations with others since I became a member of this community in 2016. I am not telling specific stories other than my own because they are not mine to tell. (TLDR at the end)

Unfortunately, there have been some bad apples within the NWN2 community who persist in pushing the boundaries of players who have already expressed that they do not want to be involved in romance RP or have other behaviors forced upon them.

If someone continues such behavior after being told to stop, it is harassment.

Here is where a huge distinction needs to be made. IC versus OOC. If someone is ICly harassing your toon, that is perfectly well within the rules. It's part of conflict RP. Now, if that moves to OOC, then (and only then) do you have a problem. To say otherwise is to not allow any evil activity on the server whatsoever.

While some players have been temp/perma banned for harassment, some of this behavior can continue for years and years before anyone says anything, or before they are believed, or before they have evidence because they didn’t think to collect it the first time. Even after submitting the right evidence, it can take even longer until any action is taken.

Part of “mature RP” is OOC consent, regardless of the subject. The RP is not mature if someone does not want to do something and you force them to do said thing regardless of their wishes. If your “mature RP” requires baby-eating, torture, sexual situations and massacres that everyone must bend to (key phrase here), that is not mature RP. There are myriad ways to play a mature, compelling character without relying on shock value.

For example, I’ve met multiple people -- male and female presenting -- on BGTSCC who do not actively seek, or who actively avoid romance and ERP (ERP is banned on BGTSCC). In fact, the prospect of such repels some of the people I have spoken to and makes them hesitant to meet new players or even log in at all. Some players avoid creating certain types of characters because they want to avoid being hit on or do not want to be pursued for relationships (anything young, anything happy or with a bubbly personality for instance -- I quit playing my Lathander paladin for this very reason). I have talked to players who left BGTSCC because of persistent (harassing) efforts from other players.

I'm going to give you a chance to clarify this point. But was you said, we are all here to tell stories. There are lines that must not be crossed, obviously. Some subjects that shouldn't be touched, and some subjects that should be handled delicately.

For instance, I had a toon a while back who went into a deep depressive episode. And I had the thought of closing out his story with him ending his life. However, I had a friend on discord who had dealt with this situation IRL, and I spoke with them about it. And I decided to have the character quietly slip away and fade out rather than commit suicide, because I felt like it would be triggering to other people.

However, your example of being "hit on" or "pursued for relationships". That's just a part of life. You can't control if someone is attracted to you and makes a pass at you IRL. Nor should you be able to control if a toon makes a pass at you in game. I have a simple rule that obviously has exceptions, but works as a rule of thumb. "Whoever takes it out of character first is in the wrong". Again, there are exceptions.

But for an example. Let's say I make a male toon. And that male toon becomes attracted to a female toon. He begins flirting with her. She ICly tells him to stop, but he's a hopeless romantic and thinks he can win her over. So he continues to flirt with her. So far, absolutely no rules have been broken, and there's been absolutely no OOC impropriety. However, if I /t the player of this toon and say something like, "I'd really like our toons to get together." Then I am in the wrong, and bordering on harassment there. But, on the other hand, if the player of the female toon /t me and says, "Don't have your toon flirt with mine", then they are trying to godmod my actions. Me personally, I'll have my toon stop flirting with them, and I'll avoid them completely, because I'll then know that the player of the female toon is unable to keep IC and OOC separate.

I have talked to players who enter into an RP relationship, who think they are telling a story, only to have the other player ask OOC to meet, for phone numbers, for pictures, etc.

At this point, immediately break contact with the person if you are uncomfortable with it. I, myself, have had to do this. Break the contact ICly, and OOCly. Block them on discord/skype if you need to. And if they continue to contact you with /t IG, take screenshots and report them.

The conversations turn to a very uncomfortable place. I have personally had someone piece together who I was in real life and showed up at my workplace unannounced. None of this is acceptable.

I don't think you'll have any argument from anyone there. I personally have had two different people threaten me over what happened in game. One person threatened over discord to come find me and kill me. Another stalked me and my wife online, and when we broke all contact threatened to find out my real identity and call the Veteran's Affairs and get my retirement and disability benefits cut off. So I understand how serious of an issue this can be.

2) Type in the body of the message what you are uncomfortable with (Torture, maiming, any romance, no hitting on my character etc). Type this at the very top.

• Examples: "Under no circumstances: X, Y, Z. If your RP requires these to occur, it may be wiser to retcon the encounter, or ignore each other.”
  “No romance. Do not hit on my character” (or some variation)
  “X (or other activity) permitted in special circumstances: A - if these requirements are met, go ahead."

If you hadn't included "hitting on my character" in your list of things, I'd have likely not even responded to this post. But the inclusion of that, to me, totally undermines your message, which I overall agree with. I'd have to trust someone a lot for them to enter into torture or maiming RP (it's very likely never going to happen). And obviously romance RP requires two people's consent, or it's not romance in the first place. However, "hitting on" someone is just a part of life. Saying, "Do not hit on my character" and then reporting them if they ICly do is godmodding, plain and simple. It's doing what you are saying others shouldn't do. It's bending others to your preferred style of RP.

How to not harass people:

1) Right click + inspect every player you see. If you see a disclaimer that says “I don’t want (behavior here)", then do not do that behavior. People may not want the following things: romance or relationship RP, flirting, permanent disfigurement, kidnapping, etc. Listen to your fellow player.

I feel like I'm belaboring this point. But including flirting in there undermines your entire argument. Again, had you kept that out, I'd have likely not even responded, or simply said, "Yeah, this can be an issue, and people need to be aware of it". But I am 100% against forcing others to RP in a way that one person wants them to.

4) Please accept rejection gracefully. Do not retaliate against that player with in-character actions.

Need some clarification here. If it's purely IC, then it's absolutely fine. If it's OOCly motivated, it's absolutely not fine. Again, that distinction needs to be made.


My final word here, is that most of what you said is already codified in the rules. Harassment can and does happen. And if it does, it needs to be reported. I've personally reported harassment on this server before, when a player began /t me simply because I had an AFK tag over my head while re-leveling my toon after an RCR, and then didn't RP with them. I took screenshots and sent them in to the DM team. I've also reported forum posts that crossed lines for me. As I said earlier, I've been threatened OOCly by psychos, one of which I sent his discord messages to the FBI.

However, your premise is "Where is the line drawn?". I believe you've drawn it too far in taking away the free will of others by your inclusion of "flirting" as a behavior that needs permission to happen. The others, you are deciding what happens to your toon. And only you should have that ability. But with flirting, you are deciding for others what they can and cannot do.

For what it's worth, some PCs take "just flirting" to rather.... uneasy levels that creep on edge of a certain type of violence.

One day, I was sitting by FAI fire RPing with my character's romantic partner. Random guy walks up, starts hitting on both. Makes some very disgusting remarks in relation to women.

Promptly gets told to sod off.

Reaction? Drew his scythe and asked me to repeat that. I did, he took that as RP consent and attacked me as I was sitting there. All because I told his PC to stop making disgusting remarks about women and to leave my PC and her partner alone.

I'm not sure I like the implications of "Woman say no? I kill her!"

[JustAnotherGuy]

But, on the other hand, if the player of the female toon /t me and says, "Don't have your toon flirt with mine", then they are trying to godmod my actions.

Exactly what part of that is Godmodding? They're just asking you to not do something that makes them feel uncomfortable. There's 100+ characters on this server, just find someone else to romance RP with?

I've never had this problem, because romance RP doesn't really interest me. But as with anything: torture, captivity, even a simple PvP fight, if the other player doesn't find it fun just don't do it.... Pretty simple.

If someone is expressing that they are OOCly uncomfortable with something, you stop. Flat out. You can figure out a reason why your character would break off their attraction to that character. If you continue doing something even after knowing that it's OOCly bothering another person, that's wrong.

It's not harassment to make a pass if you aren't aware a player doesn't like it. If they tell you it bothers them OOC, you apologize and stop, no harm done. If you continue doing it despite being told it is uncomfortable for them, that is harassment.

Flirting falls under "natural actions" of a toon. To say you are uncomfortable with it would be the same as me trying to say, "I'm uncomfortable with the Zhentarim trying to gain more power", or a more personal example to me, "I'm uncomfortable with Taka wanting my toon dead". I'm not enjoying that RP, if I'm honest. So am I within my rights to say, "Hey, Taka. You need to stop plotting against my toon, I don't like it"? There are actions which we can dictate to others that we don't want to happen to our toons. And then are actions that if we say we don't want, we are controlling other players.

Again, I'll readily agree that if a player is giving inordinate attention to another player, then that is an issue. But if a character is giving inordinate attention to a character, and it is all IC, then it's absolutely fine, and should not be stopped.

Again, the question was "where should the line be drawn?" The line should be drawn firstly at "Keep everything IC as much as possible" and then also at "I control my toon, and no one else's".

Edited to Add: I want to make sure that people understand that "Flirting" is NOT the same as "Sexual Harassment" either. They are two, separate, distinct things. And yes, if you are uncomfortable with your toon being sexually harassed, that's a whole different issue than being flirted with.

[Rhifox]

Flirting falls under "natural actions" of a toon. To say you are uncomfortable with it would be the same as me trying to say, "I'm uncomfortable with the Zhentarim trying to gain more power", or a more personal example to me, "I'm uncomfortable with Taka wanting my toon dead". I'm not enjoying that RP, if I'm honest. So am I within my rights to say, "Hey, Taka. You need to stop plotting against my toon, I don't like it"? There are actions which we can dictate to others that we don't want to happen to our toons. And then are actions that if we say we don't want, we are controlling other players.

"Natural actions" is not an excuse. It's the kind of thing that can be used to justify a lot of stuff that makes people uncomfortable. Maiming and torture? "Oh, it's just what my character would do." Etc. No. If someone is OOCly bothered, you can figure out a way to end or adjust the RP so that it is not something that will make them uncomfortable. As for your example, if you are bothered by it you are well within your rights to tell that player that you don't like how that plotline is going and to work out a way to end it. You don't have to do something blatantly OOC. You can discuss various RP paths you could take to resolve it. What matters is the person is willing to accommodate you if you really don't like how something is going.

Also "Zhentarim trying to gain more power" is not something that is being directed at a specific person. If, on the other hand, "Zhentarim trying to gain more power" entails them doing something specific to your character that you are not comfortable with, that is when you are well within your rights to ask them to stop and find someone else who would be more interested.

Again, the question was "where should the line be drawn?" The line should be drawn firstly at "Keep everything IC as much as possible" and then also at "I control my toon, and no one else's".

Keep everything IC as much as possible is rule 2. Rule 1 is don't force anything on another player that makes that player uncomfortable OOC.

[Trinket]

I think the major difference is that in the real world you don't often have a bio sheet showing what you're comfortable and not comfortable with but I would hope that if there was, and said sheet said "please don't hit on me - it makes me uncomfortable" then people wouldn't justify it by saying "it's just in my nature".

In this game world we have that luxury and if people feel it's too immersion breaking to respect the ooc wishes of a fellow player then they should simply not interact with them.

Consent matters, always.

[Blame The Rogue]

it's a group story-telling experience. everyone is here to tell their character's story. we cant tell someone else's character story, as that is for them to decide. it's about give and take. at some point everyone is going to end up in a situation where they have to come up with an IC reason why their character stops or avoids certain behaviors in certain situations in certain company, because any IC or OOC activity that makes another player uncomfortable is not okay, period. as stated above, one can make up their IC reasons, but it has to be done. it's not just about following server rules, it's about showing mutual respect, and caring about the health and well-being of others. harassment is not subjective. harassment is not okay. consent matters

[Steve]

Again, I'll readily agree that if a player is giving inordinate attention to another player, then that is an issue. But if a character is giving inordinate attention to a character, and it is all IC, then it's absolutely fine, and should not be stopped.

I can appreciate that you, JAG, are trying to make a distinction between IC and OOC behavior, comfort, and permission(s).

But at the end of the day, we ALL make an OOC contract to play this game, willingly, not forced...and nothing then IC should be forced upon another. And especially, if a player asks directly, OOC, to stop.

If any player expects that they can coerce, force, goad or lure another player into Role-play that BOTH players are not 100% comfortable and agree with, I'm sorry, but personally, you should find another gaming community to join. If 2+ players cannot "work it out" via OOC communication, then at least, all involved need to agree to disagree, and politely move on.

And if one is unwilling to engage or disengage in meaningful dialogue, then that is simply not fair and generous to your community members.