Returning Player Shaman Help

[Wyatt]

Greetings and Salutations!

I have been dabbling in BG again recently (and have been blessed with some wonderful RP from several wonder players) and am looking to create something new to devote a bit of time to. I am interested in making some sort of spirit shaman. As I am not well versed in character building I am looking for a bit of help to see if this concept is even feasible/possible. Basically I am looking to make a versatile spirit shaman that probably tends more towards gish/melee combat but would like to have respectable DC's. I'm hoping for a caster level of at least 30 for dispel purposes.

The build will probably see more play in the epic levels than in the lower levels and must be useful at endgame as more than just a party buffbot/boss nuker. The final condition is that the character must be able to solo reasonably well. Bonuses would be full pet feat line, blood magic. I don't really mind xp penalties for races or multiclassing. Race options are pretty much wide open. I'm not 100% certain if this will be a surface character or an UD character. Bizarre combinations are always welcome

Thanks for any and all help.

Wyatt

[Louvaine]

You can't have gish with good DCs.

I think Blackguard or Paladin would be a good way to go. Maybe Divine Champion? If you won't go too much into those options, your CL will be fine. Hierophant is good on Shaman, too. And I hear some people do Hospitaler and Sacred Fist, but I haven't gotten there yet.

[Wyatt]

You can't have gish with good DCs.

I think Blackguard or Paladin would be a good way to go. Maybe Divine Champion? If you won't go too much into those options, your CL will be fine. Hierophant is good on Shaman, too. And I hear some people do Hospitaler and Sacred Fist, but I haven't gotten there yet.

I don't expect top tier DC's as if a dc caster. I guess I just mean that I'd like to be mostly gish-like with some offense spells that will work. I know I won't be casting save or die things as a gish.

[Steve]

In order to make this work, where you'll have to split Ability points to WIS and CHA (16 WIS min for Level 9 spells; the rest you can afford to CHA for DCs), and to keep CL 30—you can try and pick up a non-spellcasting PrC if you only dip 4 levels (getting Practiced Spellcaster: SS) and/or going for Heirophant for 1-2 Spellpower feats—the builds "gish-ness" will have to come from using the Level 9 Shapechange spell (since from the Druid book).

You could consider SS / Darkfire Disciple / Rogue (3-4 dip) / Hierophant. Don't quote me but I think you could squeeze out CL 30. You can also easily do SS / Dragonslayer (for better BAB and Saves + spellcasting progression) and Hierophant, which is CL 30 and Hiero bonus feats could give Meta magics or 2 spellpower for a DC boost or hurtful Harm spells (there are some Druid-y Hiero feats that might benefit your DC casts).

But imho nonetheless the SS is best a "gish" when in Shapechange (as in, melee fighter). You can do a SS/Hospitalar/X/X build, which gets you some oomph. For me, a SS can have great AC and DMG utilizing spells, but the BAB issue is always the problem...and there are only a few high BAB builds with spell progression.

[Wyatt]

Shapechange on the wiki seems very underwhelming especially at epic levels. Do the forms scale somehow? If no items transfer I can't imagine running around in epics with 30 ac is going to be all that useful.

[Rhifox]

Shapechange on the wiki seems very underwhelming especially at epic levels. Do the forms scale somehow? If no items transfer I can't imagine running around in epics with 30 ac is going to be all that useful.

Items do transfer.

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Polymorphing

[Steve]

Polymorphing is the shizznizzle. With the right build and the right gear, a PC can get 52 AC. Pile on more buffs for damage reduction or this or that, and depending on the form, your PC will be an engine of destruction.

Biggest downside of course is no casting while in Shape. Save your builds DC spells for group adventuring, I guess, or CvC battles.

I forgotten mention a build I thought up but never played was a
Spirit Shaman (11), Hierophant (10), Sacred Fist (6), Monk (3) with Blood Magic. AC at 53 m/l, low AB/dmg but 35 + Spell Level for DCs and some Nature feat perks from Hierophant. Also 32 CL.

People often think Spirit Shaman as a weak Class, because they compare it to Druid, which is simply OP on BGTSCC. In truth it’s just a niche Class, with challenges inherent in it, but unlimited RP potential and some deadly mechanics.

Big downside is that all the “spirits” aspects of the Class are minimized because of the act of incorporeal content on BGTSCC. FWIW.

[Louvaine]

I forgotten mention a build I thought up but never played was a
Spirit Shaman (11), Hierophant (10), Sacred Fist (6), Monk (3) with Blood Magic. AC at 53 m/l, low AB/dmg but 35 + Spell Level for DCs and some Nature feat perks from Hierophant. Also 32 CL.

How do you arrive at this DC? Sounds wonderful.

[Wyatt]

So in order to solo as a Spirit Shaman do you need a respectable BAB for shapechange via a hospitaler build or something like that? Or could, for example your high dec build (ss/hiero/sf/monk) still do ok in shapechange throughout the game?

[Steve]

A high BAB does help for Polymorphing. That is why the Dragonslayer PrC is so beneficial to a shape changing build.

However, any build with Sacred Fist isn’t good with Shape
Change, since the Shape has Creature Weapons and thus causes SF to apply the -8 AB penalty. However however, you CAN still shape and take the penalty and still survive...that’s how pwning some Forms actually are.

[Wyatt]

So playing a regular DC build like the one you suggested would still do ok while shapechanged?

[Steve]

Download the 2020 JEGs that Valefort posted last year, and test it out for yourself (though the shape you take will be randomly chosen). We all have different power levels we are comfortable with, so I can’t say if it would be okay for you.

[Wyatt]

Thanks for all the help!