Hellfire Warlock: Get rid of the "evil" requirement

[Blame The Rogue]

apologies, but saying anyone, including good and neutral characters, can use "murder", imo, proves the point i was aiming to make

on the page i posted, it clearly states that "One branch of warlocks that could use hellfire regardless of their ethical and moral outlook were the hellfire warlocks."

"regardless of ethical and moral outlook" means their alignment is not effected by being a hellfire warlock, or by use of hellfire. this statement was put there with definite intent to show alignment isnt effected. if alignment "were" effected, this statement would not have been put there

[yyj]

apologies, but saying anyone, including good and neutral characters, can use "murder", imo, proves the point i was aiming to make

on the page i posted, it clearly states that "One branch of warlocks that could use hellfire regardless of their ethical and moral outlook were the hellfire warlocks."

"regardless of ethical and moral outlook" means their alignment is not effected by being a hellfire warlock, using hellfire. this statement was put there with definite intent to show alignment isnt effected. if alignment "were" effected, this statement would not have been put there

You are ignoring the rest of the article. And what the other poster meant is that anyone can use murder, but good characters should be expecting to get some evil points, depending on the situation. (Because not all murders are bad, sure, the Avenger class was made originally as an april's fools joke, but it became popular, and a paladin can be a murder machine and will never get an evil alignment point if they RP correctly, so just saying that in cases like this, condensing the roleplay is a disservice to the setting)

[Blame The Rogue]

apologies, but i'm not ignoring the rest of the article. i'm just pointing out, the reason that one line even exists, is to point out, hellfire warlocks arent necessarily evil

[Steve]

apologies, but i'm not ignoring the rest of the article. i'm just pointing out, the reason that one line even exists, is to point out, hellfire warlocks arent necessarily evil

In principle, a Warlock is not of evil alignment. We accept that Neutral and Chaotic Good Warlocks do exist...but Warlock powers are not always granted by Mephistopheles, and it is just getting more and more Snowflakey the more we diverge from the root of the Hellfire PrC to justify something.

Would a Chaotic Good Warlock take up Hellfire practice? You tell me. One percent of one percent, maybe? I think this is what the home brew change to the PrC reqs was about.

We can also accept that not all Hellfire Warlocks are aligned to evil, based on core source books/rules. So yes, that it is otherwise on BGTSCC simply requires a justification from Staff. Then we can put this hell-baby to rest, once and for all.

Personally, if I was running the show, I’d remove the evil req to access the PrC, but I’d setup IG/IC regional rules in civilized areas that practitioners of Hellfire Magic were banned upon punishment of Death, and in talking absolute 3 strikes you’re RCRing buddy, death.

Furthermore, I would run events that a Hellfire Warlock would have to periodically roll a Will save against the Hellfire and influence of Mephistopheles would corrupt the Soul of the Warlock and turn them to evil aligned thinking (read: alignment shift).

I think it is a beautiful thing in the dnd game to consider evil and good as direct, physical manifestations that can affect our Characters just as much as a blade can cut them or a spell can bind them. It is not just a philosophy debate of “are you evil?” but a real and capable ability to actually determine if you are/embody evil or good, in D&D, and thus in BGTSCC.

So...anyone want to start a Hellfire Hunters faction?!?

[Rhifox]

Would be nice to have it coded where each time you used a hellfire warlock ability it shifted you towards evil a bit.

We had that for a bit, but there was worry about characters using it to force alignments so they could acquire illegal builds. This is why we can't have nice things.

I wonder if we could script something so that players who did do that to get illegal builds wouldn't be allowed outside the Nexus.

[Planehopper]

Would be nice to have it coded where each time you used a hellfire warlock ability it shifted you towards evil a bit.

We had that for a bit, but there was worry about characters using it to force alignments so they could acquire illegal builds. This is why we can't have nice things.

I wonder if we could script something so that players who did do that to get illegal builds wouldn't be allowed outside the Nexus.

By the time the class was gained and the alignment was shifted, wouldn't it be a pretty clear case of intention? I didn't look at requirements, but seems like it would take some doing to make a powerbuild with this.

(But I'm also a shamelessly crappy builder so there's that)

[Rhifox]

By the time the class was gained and the alignment was shifted, wouldn't it be a pretty clear case of intention? I didn't look at requirements, but seems like it would take some doing to make a powerbuild with this.

(But I'm also a shamelessly crappy builder so there's that)

I mean, if it was up to me, I'd re-add alignment changes from spells and abilities.

[yyj]

People with illegal builds cannot leave the nexus. So let them be a paladin blackguard they will ruin their own character and make it unplayable.

By the time the class was gained and the alignment was shifted, wouldn't it be a pretty clear case of intention? I didn't look at requirements, but seems like it would take some doing to make a powerbuild with this.

(But I'm also a shamelessly crappy builder so there's that)

I mean, if it was up to me, I'd re-add alignment changes from spells and abilities.

[Unastine]

1- rogue
2-6 warlock (5 CL)
7-15 daggerspell mage (14 CL)
16-18 hf warlock (17CL)
19-20 rogue
21- daggerspell mage (18CL)
22-30 warlock (27CL without Prac Caster)

I can only see that allowing non-evil would give even more power to warlock as they will be able to add sneak dmg to their dice from being able to choose DSmage prc. And that is 5d6 which is good when you can hide unlimited times with couple of warlock invocations. Plus hf blasts 6d6. Plus daggerspell infusion SLA every 5mins. Warlock CL 27 with PC feat has 14d6 base blast. Now that makes 25d6 plus weapon enh and any ele dmg. .OP stuff. .