Corrupt Heal Pots and a Death Unknown

[MrSmith]

Two adventurers load up on supplies and head into the Serpent Hills with dreams of glory...

Cormac MacArt purchased heal pots on the auction for 7200 gold pieces per 10 (within the last three to four days). He stood toe-to-toe with the Black Dragon in a battle of attrition... He took one of the heal pots while fighting injured and under duress...*puff* nothing. Three heal potions and nothing.

- Is it possible to find out who is selling bogus heal pots and ban their arse?

Hödr, a Warsling Sniper, was flanking the Black Dragon without injury and fully buffed. The next thing he knows, he is standing in the Fugue. His combat log reads, Hödr: Immune to Fear (15 times).

- Is it possible to find out what killed a character when his combat logs are void of explanation?

Cheers!

[matelener]

Speaking from the dev side, in the next update Mudd will no longer auction poisoned consumables.

As for the issue of potential rule-breaking, you've got to pm the DMs.

[Kitunenotsume]

No idea if it's related, but while I was investigating the cause of injury poisoned used as ingested, I saw that the DC 25/26 poison cast by the [Poison] spell is Pit Fiend Ichor, which has a scripted kill effect on failing the secondary side effect. Given that all evidence points to use of the [Poison] spell as the source of these fraudulent potions, maybe that contributed to Hödr's demise?

[Blame The Rogue]

perhaps potions should be removed from the list of things you can change the icon, name, and description of? seems a reasonable precaution

[Snarfy]

No idea if it's related, but while I was investigating the cause of injury poisoned used as ingested, I saw that the DC 25/26 poison cast by the [Poison] spell is Pit Fiend Ichor, which has a scripted kill effect on failing the secondary side effect. Given that all evidence points to use of the [Poison] spell as the source of these fraudulent potions, maybe that contributed to Hödr's demise?

I've found two of these batches of potions on auction, and they were the same type of poison, but pit fiend ichor didn't show up in combat log. It's entirely possible the potions were doused with multiple poisons *shrug*.

Either way, poisoning auction potions could easily fall under the griefing rules. Also, it's garbage behavior, and the seller has been reported to the DM's.

[Habitu]

I'm not against people using the poison system and actually poisoning things and people just getting hit by it. As much as it may suck it can happen. But this use of the system was an issue for me because it was Mudd an NPC, if it was not him and someone else that's just RP to me and it brings about some fun roleplay.

But as it was, to me that falls under godmodding the NPC who IMO would check his wares before selling them or have them checked to prevent such issues etc but as was stated the issue with Mudd is resolved when the update rolls through. So yay for that and the DMs are aware of what's going on.

[Ewe]

In case people don't know,

You can use detect poison on potions to tell if they are poisoned or not.

You can use neutralize poison to remove the poison from potions making them useful again.


Also, it's not a case of changing the icons etc. of a potion. You are able to add poison to any potion, making it poisonous. It's a game feature.

[Steve]

In case people don't know,

You can use detect poison on potions to tell if they are poisoned or not.

You can use neutralize poison to remove the poison from potions making them useful again.


Also, it's not a case of changing the icons etc. of a potion. You are able to add poison to any potion, making it poisonous. It's a game feature.

I actually think this is pretty ingenious EVIL RP, to fake potions that our Characters—but more so THE PLAYERS—rely upon with 100% certainty, but now are getting “tricked.”

Sure, it sucks because you the Player were not “aware” of it beforehand, so you get surprised. Surprise!!!

It’s funny, cause I start to think about everyone clamoring for a Time of Troubles experience, but then something like this happens, and then people freak out OOC (I’ve seen the OOC threats added to IG descriptions of OTHER items on the auctionhouse, subtle threats against the player selling poisons).

This was a great opportunity to have some RP, and now it’s getting ruined, imho. And that it’s getting “fixed” OOC by Staff, to protect players, is kinda lame (please don’t take personally).

As Ewe said, if it’s a game feature, why is it an issue?

[Kitunenotsume]

I am in a similar opinion to Steve on this one, but from a slightly different perspective.

I also feel like the OOC crackdown really hampers merchant RP, which does seem to have risen in immediate response to the incident. While the mechanical impacts definitely impact people who don't involve themselves in that sort of thing, it seems incredibly heavy handed to address IC actions using OOC ultimatums and consequences, when oft-ignored IC mechanics explicitly exist for dealing with it.

While I agree Mudds has a right (and in many cases a responsibility) to verify that nothing he is selling is fraudulent, I see the fact that the fraud is so easily and readily perpetrated as indicative of a larger set of issues.

Namely, that this particular fraud would be much less controversial if the consumable in question were not an otherwise fungible bulk good flipped from NPCs by appraisers, instead of being an elixir-only 6th level spell that has a hard minimum limit of 1320 GP each with a mandatory unremovable sticker proclaiming the brewer. Sure, you could still poison it, but there isn't any hiding who made the thing. If you want to ensure your Heal potions are not poisoned, why not buy them from Candlekeep yourself and accept the higher price for the guarantee of purity?

Secondly, I've noticed there are a *bunch* of issues implied in the current implementation of the Poison spell, but that is for another thread.

[Snarfy]

This was a great opportunity to have some RP, and now it’s getting ruined, imho. And that it’s getting “fixed” OOC by Staff, to protect players, is kinda lame (please don’t take personally).

As Ewe said, if it’s a game feature, why is it an issue?

What RP is there in this exactly? Character names on auction listings are OOC, so the seller is technically immune from any IC repercussions. They aren't RPing with their customer, they're poisoning stuff, dumping it on auction, and logging off. Zero interaction with the buyer.

These poisoned potions are sending people to the fugue, and they risk suffering XP losses and there's no legitimate IC way for them to respond or retaliate.

If I set 3 deadly traps down on the zone in location at FAI, stepped back and hid with my epic hide/MS, RP'd nothing while your lowbie toon took a trip to the fugue, and snuck away scott free, would that be cool? I mean, traps are just a feature, right?



There's a not so subtle difference between utilizing pvp related mechanics responsibly and with a sense of fair play, and abusing them for the purposes of screwing people over.

[Steve]

Who said names at THE CONSIGNMENT is OOC?

[Steve]

And, I always walk around using Search with good investment so my toons are going to see your traps and then report it to the FAI guards who will then hopefully lay a trap for your sneak and then perhaps one day soon my toon can enjoy a good public hanging!!!

How’s that for some engaging RP?!?

[MrSmith]

[W]hy is it an issue?

Because an NPC stands between the player vs. player experience. IC: Cormac and Hödr would have returned to Mudd's and sought his immediate support and recompense... which is impossible without DM support. Ironically, I sent a message to see if a DM was in-game while sitting in the Fugue. Then, I came to the realization the antagonist's actions were godmodding the more I thought about the experience.

Cheers!

[Blaze]

Magically it could be traced back to the poisoner using '' scrying '' spell.

As ridiculous as it is from the OOC point of view for the reasons mentioned above, I find it interesting that all of this can have a twist in the RP point of view. Obviously, since an NPC is involved, it could have far worse consequences, be it a month (15 RL days) in hard labor, paying a high fee/fine, a bounty on his head, etc.

Many players are moving to find the culprit and RP is being generated around this ''''''joke''''''

PCs who auctioned potions without knowing about the poison could help track down the poisoner, the poisoner could escape and take refuge in the Underdark for example.

This is my personal opinion and although it is something that goes against the rules, giving a ban would take away the possibility of implementing severe consequences in RP after what happened.

[Louvaine]

It hits way too close to PvP and the nature of it eliminates content. Staff is removing way to PvP without consent. Sounds good to me.

There's another problem with the whole ordeal and that is how impossibly difficult it is to challenge this community (not singling anyone out). A lesson here is to be made about how to play interesting and engaging evil character. I'm not the one to be spelling it out, but to all those who hope to challenge the system in some way, you should look hard at the responses you see and welcome the feedback you get. Otherwise, what's the point?