100% RCR Token instead of a gated window

[Calen]

I honestly don't understand why this is discussed so much, this server needs a permanent 100% RCR.

Imagine playing here for the first time and having to go through all the custom feats/PC's/Balance tweaks and what not and plan out a build that works while not having a proper way of testing it.
Even if you manage to somewhat test it in Jecht you'll find out some unpleasant surprises on this server.

1: Every NPC knows how to dispel and they spam the living hell out of it, you need to be aware of it.

2: A lot of mobs are immune to basic mechanics such as knockdown even when they shouldn't be.

3: Mobs have high saves that a lot of feats/abilities are worthless once you hit +20 because of it

4: You need to keep the 3/20 rule into account which complicates building and forces in some cases to power build .

5: PVE content is catering towards power builds/optimized builds

6: Loot is rare, it is something to take into account when building characters as well.

7: Server isn't generous with exp, it takes a while to level up.

There is something to say for that RCR will have an effect on the immersion, but that is subjective.
I rather have new/returning players stay and not quit because they get demotivated after finding out they have to regrind because of build errors.
Let's be fair here, playing a weak build isn't fun.
In DM events you hang in the back as you get mauled, during group runs you pretty much do the same and in general you feel like you don't contribute anything.



Besides, if we speak of immersion breaking stuff.


- You have people rping charismatic leading characters while having 8 charisma because this server does not reward charisma in terms of feats or RP.
The same can be said for 8 wisdom characters and the majority of the skill points.

- You have mobs spawning in the same room out of thin air while your character has 40 spot/listen and true seeing.

- Majority of the players will ignore evil/good summons if they grind for the sake of it

- Resting time and no punishment for reckless resting

- People use the scry to walk into each other or PM each other.

- You can't make specific RP builds because the server forces you to follow the 3/20 rule


I think a 100% RCR will be abused by a few but for the majority of the players this will make playing enjoyable and that is what it is about.

[Grendunor]

The above post outlines the issue quite nicely

a 100% RcR all the time offers near everything to gain and very little to lose.

People who don't care about RP continuity just won't. The logic of forcing everyone to commit to game-time padding grind everytime they need to fix an error in their build because of it is bass-ackwards.

[TravelingVagrant]

My take is to have an option available at the RCR man. One to let you reduce exp normally, and another to 100%. This let's the player so what makes sense for them - and much like the others have said, the people who don't care about RP continuity will never care about it, 100% or not.

More flexibility for players is not a bad thing.

[Tanlaus]

The problem with 100% RCR all the time is that is becomes trivial to continually remold a character for specific instances. Got that social thing coming up? Max bluff, diplomacy and sense motive. Heading into Durlags? Max out those lock picking skills. Need a tank for the white dragon? Drop those rogue levels and replace with barb/fighter/pally or other tank of choice.

And honestly, if there’s one thing I’ve learned from being part of QC Is that if there is a system plsyets can take advantage of, they will. And in a non trivial way. Meaning it won’t just be an insignificant number after awhile but part of the general server culture.

And this isn’t a knock on the player base. If there is something that is easy and okay to do, people will do it. It’s like muling gear. There are servers where it is strictly forbidden. Here it is allowed and just part of the culture.

My point is, there really are some over-arching implications to a free and easy permanent 100% RCR. Which, honestly is not on the table right now. The only thing on the table is an RCR period after the server split.

I think there is a value discussion to be had about an RCR token for people who reach 30 and realize there is an issue with their build. Seems like a reasonable one time thing. But that’s just my personal opinion.

[Xorena]

If you want to take it to extremes, players could also do those quests in Baldur's Gate over and over again until they hit 30. I haven't actually calculated how long that would take but I am sure it would be a long time.

I am skeptical that so many would actually exploit this. There are already people who RP people in positions of power who dumpstatted social skills and don't get called on it. I suppose those who are so concerned about "winning" everything might do this. It's a lot of work to constantly RCR, but I suppose if they have all of their life invested in their character then they have other problems.

The problem with 100% RCR all the time is that is becomes trivial to continually remold a character for specific instances. Got that social thing coming up? Max bluff, diplomacy and sense motive. Heading into Durlags? Max out those lock picking skills. Need a tank for the white dragon? Drop those rogue levels and replace with barb/fighter/pally or other tank of choice.

And honestly, if there’s one thing I’ve learned from being part of QC Is that if there is a system plsyets can take advantage of, they will. And in a non trivial way. Meaning it won’t just be an insignificant number after awhile but part of the general server culture.

And this isn’t a knock on the player base. If there is something that is easy and okay to do, people will do it. It’s like muling gear. There are servers where it is strictly forbidden. Here it is allowed and just part of the culture.

My point is, there really are some over-arching implications to a free and easy permanent 100% RCR. Which, honestly is not on the table right now. The only thing on the table is an RCR period after the server split.

I think there is a value discussion to be had about an RCR token for people who reach 30 and realize there is an issue with their build. Seems like a reasonable one time thing. But that’s just my personal opinion.

[Tanlaus]

If you want to take it to extremes, players could also do those quests in Baldur's Gate over and over again until they hit 30. I haven't actually calculated how long that would take but I am sure it would be a long time.

I am skeptical that so many would actually exploit this. There are already people who RP people in positions of power who dumpstatted social skills and don't get called on it. I suppose those who are so concerned about "winning" everything might do this. It's a lot of work to constantly RCR, but I suppose if they have all of their life invested in their character then they have other problems.

The problem with 100% RCR all the time is that is becomes trivial to continually remold a character for specific instances. Got that social thing coming up? Max bluff, diplomacy and sense motive. Heading into Durlags? Max out those lock picking skills. Need a tank for the white dragon? Drop those rogue levels and replace with barb/fighter/pally or other tank of choice.

And honestly, if there’s one thing I’ve learned from being part of QC Is that if there is a system plsyets can take advantage of, they will. And in a non trivial way. Meaning it won’t just be an insignificant number after awhile but part of the general server culture.

And this isn’t a knock on the player base. If there is something that is easy and okay to do, people will do it. It’s like muling gear. There are servers where it is strictly forbidden. Here it is allowed and just part of the culture.

My point is, there really are some over-arching implications to a free and easy permanent 100% RCR. Which, honestly is not on the table right now. The only thing on the table is an RCR period after the server split.

I think there is a value discussion to be had about an RCR token for people who reach 30 and realize there is an issue with their build. Seems like a reasonable one time thing. But that’s just my personal opinion.

I actually know people who just log alts to run quests. Having an efficient route and a few invis potions means you can mostly get them done in an hour or so. Less if you can teleport.

And if people dump stat social skills and don't get called on it, just call them on it. Roll a sense motive check every now and again when they are trying to convince you to do or not do something. I roll social skills all the time. Makes for fun RP.

But back to the main point, outside of social stats there are plenty of mechanical reasons this could be problematic. Redoing ranger FEs for some particular ongoing DM event. Completely redoing a sorc spell list for the same reason. PVP tournament coming up? Through in a few levels of something to jack of or listen skills for those dirty HiPSters. There's just a really long list of easy exploits a permanent 100% RCR facilitates.

[Calen]

You can compromise it by doing it like this, getting the best of two worlds.


- Once a month you can use a free RCR regardless of level through a token ,you can add some demands to it.
An example would be that you need to have RP EXP earned to be able to get it.

- Up to level 20 you're free to delevel/relevel your character as the majority of big screw-ups happen there with a token which you get once a week.


What you will achieve is this

- New/returning players will be able to adjust their builds up to level 20 while exploring the server

- Old players can fix their build once a month or try out something slightly different and new players can fix their build once a month in the epic levels.


The good out weights the bad with this here.
Players that make changes with RP in mind or to fix honest mistakes will have fun, players that like to abuse this are the ones that are doing it now anyway so nothing changes.

[Tanlaus]

snip

Luckily! The point of this post was not to open up a 100% RCR permanently, but to suggest allowing a single token to be granted to a character when they first make said character so when the time does come that they need to use it, they have it. Let's not get too far off track from the original post, I don't want this being misconstrued as another post that aims to open RCR up permanently.

You’re right. I actually considered not responding at all but my desire to procrastinate at work got the better of me

[izzul]

You can compromise it by doing it like this, getting the best of two worlds.


- Once a month you can use a free RCR regardless of level through a token ,you can add some demands to it.
An example would be that you need to have RP EXP earned to be able to get it.

- Up to level 20 you're free to delevel/relevel your character as the majority of big screw-ups happen there with a token which you get once a week.


What you will achieve is this

- New/returning players will be able to adjust their builds up to level 20 while exploring the server

- Old players can fix their build once a month or try out something slightly different and new players can fix their build once a month in the epic levels.


The good out weights the bad with this here.
Players that make changes with RP in mind or to fix honest mistakes will have fun, players that like to abuse this are the ones that are doing it now anyway so nothing changes.

seems a nice suggestion (make it once a year)

players bank 2 kinds of XP

1
-mobs XP
-fishing XP
-questing XP

2
-RP XP

so when players wants to RCR, they can only use the RP XP to RCR above lvl 20. (because its all about RP so they need to use RP XP to RCR ex: lvl 30)

of course they can still RCR like normal with the normal 5%/10% up to 50% penalty using mobs XP, fishing XP, questing XP with max lvl 20

[Calen]

I like the tweaks to this idea, so what you'll end up with is this.

1: Up to level 20 you're free to fix your build once a day or so.

2: Once a year or half a year depending on the decision you get 1 free 100% RCR token.

3: If you're 30 you're RP exp will be stashed and can be used for an RCR above level 21.


I'll be honest here, I'm prone to making build mistakes and each time I do it I kind of feel like not playing anymore.
It's the simple things like missing out a skill point or forgetting that build X requires feat B and as a result I usually have to remake because of the 3/20 rule.
I'm a bit extreme in this, but I screwed up 3 warlocks builds in a row dropping me from 15 to 12.
Over my time on BGTSCC I met more people running into this issue or simply not being aware of having certain feats/tweaks on this server.

In the end we're talking about quality of life features on a server that is focused on RP while the build issues are made because of the pve content, such as rules like the 3/20, balance tweaks that aren't necessary, monsters tuned for min/maxers and classes tuned for power builders.

With no good way of testing builds these ideas would help new/returning players.

[Blaze]

I'm a new player on BGTSCC but far from it in the world of NWN2 online. The approach I mechanically had with the server was total chaos, custom feats, custom PrCs, PnP spells.

I take the blame for not having read the description of some feats well but I had to recreate the same character 4 times for mistakes made during the level up.

Baldur's Gate is an almost enjoyable server as far as low and medium level dungeons are concerned but, as soon as you get to the epic dungeons, here you literally understand the difference between who has taken the right feats and who has not, I'm sorry to say it harshly but this is the truth, no matter the number of people in our party, a balor can wipe them all if not well builded.

If I could go back I would change a lot of things about my current character, maybe I would even do a new one given the setting. If you could have more freedom and fewer restrictions on the mechanical side, it would be much more appropriate in both RP and mecanichal side of the server. This does not mean favoring powerbuilds but rather making clear the concept that not everyone likes to have many characters, not everyone likes to grind 10 different characters up to 30, I am among those who prefer to use only one PC, focus on it and make it an integral part of the setting.

Many complain that X character can go from druid to sorcerer and here unfortunately I have to agree, but anyone should have the freedom to put an end to their PC and create a new one, this could give a breath of fresh air to the server according to the my humble opinion.
Losing 10 levels from 30 to 20 in your opinion brings more RP (?). No, it brings those same players to grind again instead of spending their time doing RP, be it campfire or anything else, the progression (level up) is a fundamental part of any character because it represents a progression in their statistics (that it can be physical or mental), in the ability to interact (more skillpoints invested in lore X, diplomacy, track, etc.). Having a character at 30 will inevitably have a different impact than one at 20, 15 or 10.

I like to have a PC that can interact with everyone (or almost), but I would like to have a character capable of giving support even in what some call ''grinding'' but which for me is a fundamental part of RP and explorations, whether they are always and only in the same dungeons it does not matter, as long as there is RP even the grinding can be considered fun.

Mine is a personal opinion and I hope it will be taken as such, I do not judge anyone's playstile, anyone is free to grind every day, just as they are free not to do it and do only and exclusively RP, for this reason I do not want and I am not giving a judgment to you but rather I am giving you my point of view.

In conclusion I would agree in having a RcR token every two months (six months seems too much, especially if one RL day corresponds to at least two days inside the server) for epic levels.
For the pre epics I would give free will in being able to modify your build but with a cooldown. This cooldown could be given by the playing time, the first one has an expiration of 1 day, if you use the token you have another one and you can use it after a week, if you also use this you will have another one that you can use after a month. At every month or two, this may reset back to one day, one week, one month etc.

[lum]

The problem right now with rebuilding is that if you are (especially) in those higher and epic levels, you lose a lot. And when the rcr is meant for the same character, that can suck as it can mess up the way how you spend time with others as suddenly you are less powerful again (maybe even out of level range), or suddenly you don't have the skills, the skill levels or certain feats anymore you used to have (being those important rp wise or mechanical wise).
Not until you worked your way back up.


The only solutions right now to recover such loss are (arranged from easy to complex, depending on who you are) :

1. Run quests with steadfast devotion.
2. Grind non-stop, with the problem that you can't solo anymore once you get into certain levels, unless you really know very well how to build.
3. Clear your schedules or sacrifice your sleep in order to be able to join dm events.
4. Find a way to squirm yourself into a clique.
5. Find a partner.


I myself am a little stubborn when it comes to builds. Okay, I do ask advice to make sure they can survive a little, but often my character builds are based on traits the character has or is supposed to have. In such cases I experienced that my character as from certain levels gets into trouble in order to do number 2. You can of course try find others to help grind, but that can be tricky. (no comment)

Instead of trying to find an almighty character mechanical wise, I would love to make a character that is for example rather weak combat wise, but who got either certain skills, feats, qualities and abilities I envision in said fictitious person. Perhaps even one who relies on certain others to make up for weaknesses. And who can contribute at other occassions with skills of its own. Long ago, on another server I had a few people with whom we made characters together who were complementing each other.

Those were the days though and I realise such will never come back.

[Miyuki]

The problem right now with rebuilding is that if you are (especially) in those higher and epic levels, you lose a lot. And when the rcr is meant for the same character, that can suck as it can mess up the way how you spend time with others as suddenly you are less powerful again (maybe even out of level range), or suddenly you don't have the skills, the skill levels or certain feats anymore you used to have (being those important rp wise or mechanical wise).
Not until you worked your way back up.


The only solutions right now to recover such loss are (arranged from easy to complex, depending on who you are) :

1. Run quests with steadfast devotion.
2. Grind non-stop, with the problem that you can't solo anymore once you get into certain levels, unless you really know very well how to build.
3. Clear your schedules or sacrifice your sleep in order to be able to join dm events.
4. Find a way to squirm yourself into a clique.
5. Find a partner.


I myself am a little stubborn when it comes to builds. Okay, I do ask advice to make sure they can survive a little, but often my character builds are based on traits the character has or is supposed to have. In such cases I experienced that my character as from certain levels gets into trouble in order to do number 2. You can of course try find others to help grind, but that can be tricky. (no comment)

Instead of trying to find an almighty character mechanical wise, I would love to make a character that is for example rather weak combat wise, but who got either certain skills, feats, qualities and abilities I envision in said fictitious person. Perhaps even one who relies on certain others to make up for weaknesses. And who can contribute at other occassions with skills of its own. Long ago, on another server I had a few people with whom we made characters together who were complementing each other.

Those were the days though and I realise such will never come back.

I second that. I was offered build that were no longer logical to me. A character that is Feyblood and has red dragon Blood on top? Just to ab able to survive and sacrfice RP compability? No thank you.

The way i feel is at the moment, i feel forcerd to RCR my characters and loose levels just because

1) The monsters in certain areaas became stronger.
2) The loot in lower level Dungeons were nerved to make them lss attractive to epic characters.
3) Weekly quests were made hard, up to impossible.
4) My RP character concepts made unplayable, because i'm a EU player who can't play at US freindly times due to RL.
5) I feel punsihed for having a RL and ans a health to be considerate of (unable too sacrifice sleep, otherwise migraine attacks!)

I love to make characters that don't need to solo bosses. But they should be able to go loot hunting and questing alone. Most of all, their classes, feats and skills should make sense in RP to me. I've come fron strict german RP servers and that influenced me a lot. I learned that yoou play all that's in your sheet, nit just take things for engine power and then ignore it.

Due too my limited playtimes i do not often get to tarvel with other players. Most onthis server is played on US times. So at my early EU times, barely anyone is awake. I feel punished for wanting to support RP fitting builds instead of senseless powerbuilds. The way things are scaked right now, it just motivates players to powerbuil even more and that makles things worde for RP lovers like me or others.

Long story short:
I ask the staff herewith to rethink the changes, suggesting two way . a) Please either hand out 100 % RCR tokens so the players can adjust their builds because it's not their fault if the powergamers lead everthind ad absurdum. b) Or please make the monsters and loot running easier so also the RP players have a chnace to find good stuff and make money.

[DaloLorn]

Miyuki's problems sound eerily familiar... it's a shame I never really got to interact with Freya.

There are a few European players still around, though. I know Gamarasa's German, if he's still playing...

[Alexander Holgart]

I'll avoid to quote over quote over quote but I feel as well much of the above mentioned, by lum and Miyuki.

And I have a build that performs pretty well overall.