Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2021)

[Theodore01]

What about PowerAttack/IPA with short spears?

Power Attack does not add bonus damage to a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), but the penalty to attack rolls still applies.

Is a short spear a light weapon, as usually any tiny weapon is considered light weapon?
https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Light_weapon

[Rhifox]

What about PowerAttack/IPA with short spears?

Power Attack does not seem to work with them, I'm afraid.

Is a short spear a light weapon, as usually any tiny weapon is considered light weapon?
https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Light_weapon

For the purposes of things like PA/IPA and Dual Wielding, shortspears are considered Light weapons.

For the purposes of Weapon Finesse, they are not.

[yyj]

New abilities:

Breath weapon: The dragon exhales elemental energy. Each creature caught in the area must make a DC=DRUID_LVL Reflex saving throw, taking (DRUID_LVL)d6 damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. The shape of the area and the type of damage depend on the colour of the dragon:

Red: 30 ft cone / fire
Black: 60 ft line / acid
Blue: 60 ft line / electrical
Bronze: 60 ft line / electrical

This ability has a 2 minute cooldown.

Wing Buffet: The dragon beats its wings. Each creature within 20 ft. of the dragon must succeed on a DC=DRUID_LVL Reflex saving throw or take (DRUID_LVL / 2)d6 bludgeoning damage and be knocked prone for 1 round.

This ability has a 2 minute cooldown.

Frightful Presence: Each hostile creature that is within 30 feet of the dragon must succeed on a DC=DRUID_LVL Will saving throw or become Shaken for 1 minute. The effect is empowered against creatures with less than (DRUID_LVL/3) Hit Dices and they become Frightened instead. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the dragon's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.

Other changes:

- Massive DEX reduction (From 28 to 16) = -6 AC, -6 reflex save
- Removal of 150 bonus HP
-+ -3 Dodge AC less than the strongest current blueprint (but compensated for pure druids: +1 AC at 28/29/30 druid levels)
-+ Size decrease, from Huge to Large, which corresponds with the model (it's also: +1 AC, +1 AB, -4 Size checks, no immunity to Bigby 6)
-+ Damage Reduction is equal to (DRUID_LVL - 15)/-
-+ Spell resistance is equal to DRUID_LVL - 5
+ STR/DEX/CON/NATURAL AC are constant at all levels: 37 STR / 16 DEX / 27 CON / 17 NAT AC
+ Movement speed bonus: 20%. Does not stack with spells.
+ Requirement lowered to just 25 druid levels (no wisdom requirement)
+ All creature weapons in Wild Shapes now inherit offensive properties from gloves

These look like very fun changes. Good work.

[mrm3ntalist]

Does this

+ Requirement lowered to just 25 druid levels (no wisdom requirement)

apply for multiclassing with cavestalker as well?

Increase wildshape uses (but change the dragon shape feat to require 27 levels of Druid)

GIB Dragon shape changes!

[Snarfy]

Druid has already proven itself to be one of the strongest classes on the server, if anything there should probably be more tweaks to bring it in line with the rest of the classes....

^ this.

New stuff is cool and all but some of this might be a little too much. Why the removal of the wisdom requirement? Breath weapon, heck yeah, neato. Wing buffet I'm kind of on the fence about, and Frightful Presence... well, I can understand why a real dragon would have it(because they're supposed to be terrifying), but I'm not sure if a dragon shifting druid should(thank frick the fear wont work on anything above 1/3 the druids HD).

[mrm3ntalist]

When is the next 100% RCR? I want to go solo with these changes. And who has those 1d10 acid gloves? PM me for a trade

[Trinket]

Wow this is great! I'd love to hear what some of the reasoning is behind this update! I can see how a Dex reduction means people can't build for shadow dancing dragons as easily. The extra abilities look useful without being too overpowered! Love the flavour this is gonna bring.

What were the designers thoughts around this? Really love all the hard work you've all done.

[Rhifox]

What were the designers thoughts around this?

The goal was to nerf dragon druid by bringing the stats more in line with canon dragon stats (dragon mobs generally have lower dexterity scores), but give some fun tools to make druid gameplay more interesting as compensation.

[matelener]

I appreciate seeing work going towards the classes but I do not think druid needs a damage buff for all wild shape forms in the form of glove bonus. Some of those magical beast forms can easily get up to 60 AC with self applied buffs, they do not need extra damage on top of it. Druid has already proven itself to be one of the strongest classes on the server, if anything there should probably be more tweaks to bring it in line with the rest of the classes.

Still, glad to see classes are getting some looking over. Hoping to see some tweaks for other things as well.

Edit: Was thinking of a different form, magical beast forms can get around 50, whoops!

1) The overall dragon shape changes shave power off the top, while providing a more fun experience playing it at the same time.
2) The gloves transfer increases the depth of character customization and help in the most problematic department which is dealing damage with creature weapons.

Does this

+ Requirement lowered to just 25 druid levels (no wisdom requirement)

apply for multiclassing with cavestalker as well?

Increase wildshape uses (but change the dragon shape feat to require 27 levels of Druid)

GIB Dragon shape changes!

The requirement is 25 druid levels (no PRCs account for this except the upcoming Shifter)

New stuff is cool and all but some of this might be a little too much. Why the removal of the wisdom requirement? Breath weapon, heck yeah, neato. Wing buffet I'm kind of on the fence about, and Frightful Presence... well, I can understand why a real dragon would have it(because they're supposed to be terrifying), but I'm not sure if a dragon shifting druid should(thank frick the fear wont work on anything above 1/3 the druids HD).

1) Wisdom requirement was artificial and purposeless - what other ability are you going to max with 25 druid levels? Charisma?
2) In pnp, Dragon Shape inherits extraordinary abilities, Frightful Presence among them.

[mrm3ntalist]

The requirement is 25 druid levels (no PRCs account for this except the upcoming Shifter)

Just need the 5 CS. Perfect changes. Druids always needed more AB/BAB and damage! ( In a way, every class does )

[Rhifox]

Already hearing from some human druids how beneficial the removal of the Wisdom requirement is, because if you're not an aasimar it's quite hard to reach. And anything that promotes less planetouched races is a boon in my book.

[Snarfy]

Already hearing from some human druids how beneficial the removal of the Wisdom requirement is, because if you're not an aasimar it's quite hard to reach. And anything that promotes less planetouched races is a boon in my book.

Amen to that. Now, if only something could be done about all those tieflings scurrying around... Although, if the flipside to the coin is more dragons running around, ehh... <.< I guess we'll cross that bridge if/when yada yada.

[Trinket]

What were the designers thoughts around this?

The goal was to nerf dragon druid by bringing the stats more in line with canon dragon stats (dragon mobs generally have lower dexterity scores), but give some fun tools to make druid gameplay more interesting as compensation.

Love it. I avoided dragon druid because they always felt just a little too strong for me to enjoy and the 25 wisdom was a pain to reach without losing stats elsewhere. Now I'm just thirsty for an RCR along with all the other druids.

[Deathgrowl]

Already hearing from some human druids how beneficial the removal of the Wisdom requirement is, because if you're not an aasimar it's quite hard to reach. And anything that promotes less planetouched races is a boon in my book.

Is it? (Also isn't it 27?)

You can start a human with 14, 12, 12, 14, 14, 14 - yes 14 wisdom - and still comfortably reach 27 wisdom and be able to pick Dragon Shape at level 29 as a pure druid. But then you could start at 16 and free up two epic feats for epic companion and dragon companion as well, if you wanted. That would be 12, 12, 12, 14, 16, 12 for example. Obviously you could spread points out differently here. Where are you losing stats elsewhere?

It's like saying it's too difficult to get good DCs on a wizard because it requires such high intelligence that you lose out on stats elsewhere. If you want to have good DCs, expect your strength to perhaps not be on par with fighters.

Or compare it to EDM, which requires 21 charisma and strength, to the detriment of other abilities. Herein, in fact, is a greater cause for people picking aasimar, for it is difficult to reach those two high stats without sacrificing your intelligence for skill points, dexterity for AC with light armour for whatever evasion class dip you choose and so on.

Whether you think the high investment necessary is a good thing or not, 27 wisdom for a dragon shape isn't that difficult to reach.

[Diamore]

Is it? (Also isn't it 27?)

Aasimir druids get the feat earlier so it can be used earlier for easier grinding.

They can also avoid getting it earlier and instead just get extra additional epic feats. That can be used for easier grinding than the needed Epic Wisdom a human druid would provide. Likewise this additional ability to choose other feats also make them more flexible than the "dragon-locked" human.

So yes, it is harder to reach 29(27) Wisdom on a human druid than on an aasimir.


That aside, as a player who keeps trying to play non-dragon druids and keeps running into dragons (druids) who don't act druidic, I dislike this change to dragon shape. It encourages the usage of the feat as the main "end point" of choosing druid. The changes to gloves for other shapes was a welcome addition to making other shapes useful though. I would prefer it didn't work with dragon shape of course.

Although admittedly less aasimir is a slight benefit.