Please Stop Using “Toxic” to Label Something X on BGTSCC

[Steve]

Hello Community,
Please stop using the term/label of Toxic everything “negative” experienced on BGTSCC.

Do you know about Labeling Theory in the science of psychology? I humbly ask you to invest at least a few minutes. Here is a start.

I am not here to try and devalue any negative experience, either personal or public. These experiences are/were real. That does not mean they are or have to be permanent. Think: flexibility.

What I am requesting is that one consider how constantly labeling the Server or players or an experience “toxic” can actually make the situation worse, than better.

I doubt anyone wants to make it worse. That is my hopeful side!

Toxic has become this catch-all word, and by labeling the environment thus, you actually MAKE the environment so.

It also means each and every one of this community has the power—at least verbally, psychologically—to make the environment better, THROUGH POSITIVE LABELING.

Don’t just take my word(s) for it; look it up. If you want BGTSCC, the Forum, the experience to be better, than how you label any of those, actually matters. A great deal, imho.

Thank you for your consideration.

[whatsittoya]

Pretty cool and also pretty true.

The language we use to describe things does a lot to cement our feelings about it in certain ways.

[c2k]

If anyone thinks that BGTSCC and this forum is toxic, the rest of the internet must be horrifying for them.

[yyj]

Just giving my two cents, but many times it also assumes intent. Many times people label certain things as "toxic behavior" when it's actually just ignorance, or something else.

[Deathgrowl]

Adding to what yyj says there, I want to introduce those of you not already familiar with it, the concept of Hanlon's razor:

The basic form of it is this one:

Never attribute to cruelty or malice that which is adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.

[Ewe]

But, Master Alchemist elixirs literally are toxic!

[Ravial]

Suuuure, but there's a matter of ignoring actual issues within communities. You can't solve all of that with positivity alone. Sometimes calling certain deeds or matters by their appropriate name (see English Dictionary for actual meanings of words) is necessary for one of the steps to fix it.

Frankly speaking, most problems within this community comes from an over-inflated ego between players, in my experience. If we can manage to diminish pettiness in our behaviours then a lot of issues between everyone in here will stop being issues.


Don't look for enemies in this game. It's meant to be a chill place for everyone. If you have a problem with somebody, talk to them about it. It might sound simple and basic- but that's the secret knowledge of solving problems between people. Talking about it instead of trash-talking someone behind their back.

[kleomenes]

Don't look for enemies in this game. It's meant to be a chill place for everyone. If you have a problem with somebody, talk to them about it. It might sound simple and basic- but that's the secret knowledge of solving problems between people. Talking about it instead of trash-talking someone behind their back.

I do have to +1 this. Its advice that I have had to give and be given before, as its often not the first instinct --- but its the wisest one.

[Azroth]

Slang Terms like toxic, edgy, simp, and a lot more get high jacked anyone that thinks they understand the definition and situation but fail to comprehend the reality of things. Like the word trigger. All ended up once acceptable terms to use in the right context, then high jacked due to outside influences that result in a social stigma as time goes on.

[Maecius]

It used to really bother me when people referred to the server as "toxic" -- back when I was a "real" admin, and not a substitute teacher.

Over time, with distance and the imitation wisdom that comes from aging, I've come to realize it's usually just code for someone being hurt by the actions of another player (or a handful of players) and not being happy playing the game anymore as a result of it.

That is to say: It's usually (not always) more about one player's unhappiness with a specific person or small group of persons rather than with the community or the population as a whole. When I say "players" here, it's interchangeable with "staff," by the way. We're all players of this game in one way or another, and we're all susceptible to interpersonal conflict.

But in any case, it's against the forum rules to call out people by name (and for good reason, since that's flaming -- and, to be frank, I've never, ever seen it make the situation better, only worse, for all parties involved), so calling the server "toxic" is a subtler way of indicating to those people, by sleight of hand if you will, that you are unhappy with them and their behaviors. Those players un-involved in that player's particular drama can sometimes get caught in the cross-fire, or take umbrage with it since it is being phrased as an "attack" on the community as a whole, but usually it's less targeted at the general population and more towards "whoever is making me unhappy to play here."

It still makes me unhappy, personally, that anyone is ever making anyone else unhappy to play here. But any community of any size is going to have its fair share of personality conflicts and drama. As gamers, and as people who love this community in particular, we should all probably do our best to minimize the conflicts and the drama where we can (which is basically in our own interactions -- as that's the only place we have the full control to do so).

When we are having issues with another player, experience shows that talking our problems out with them directly, as suggested above, is definitely the best way to go about resolving them. It's not always successful, as some people are just going to stubbornly dislike you for their own reasons (or truly, as a result of their own paranoia or trust issues, believe that you have malice and trickery behind your actions even when you're sincerely holding out an olive branch), but it's more often successful than the alternatives.

In the meantime, people un-involved in a particular issue that's causing someone else heartache should probably try not to get heartache over it themselves if they are truly un-involved. We have this impressive tendency as a species to think that something someone else is talking about inherently involves us, even when it doesn't, especially if it's being discussed in a public forum. But here in game and on the forums -- and in "real life" for that matter, as well -- you should probably try not to get caught up in someone else's hurting when you don't have the ability to fix it. Unless you just like hurting for the fun of it (in which case, I'd like to tell you all about the goddess Loviatar). The best we can all try to do is to make the game as fun as we can for each other by being inclusive, understanding, and trusting of one another's intentions until given real reasons to doubt them. We control our own actions, and nobody else's, so we have to be the change we want to see if we do indeed want to see it (and not simply see it in others and then benefit from it ourselves without changing any of our own behaviors -- in which case, good luck with that!).

[Azroth]

It used to really bother me when people referred to the server as "toxic" -- back when I was a "real" admin, and not a substitute teacher.

Well, I think in the past issues, and more, there was largely a stigma with trust issues. I myself in the past have witnessed older DM's (No names given) on player accounts, getting snarky with other players in local chat, unable to distance themselves from IC that was immersion-breaking for them at the time, which was very minor.

Even seen players lay on the hate on one person due to X and Y in local chat.

But very little was ever done that was impactful enough to send the message. Make it clear, enough is enough, as these issues roll on.

It was a very unfortunate problem in the past, no longer present as far as I am aware of, influenced by the minority, like a contagion, when anger gets weaponized against someone, the only response in time is to do the same to the others to protect one's self. Along with malice-loaded ooc rumors about X person, that only the gullible would be fooled, and there's quite a few that just take what one says for granted.



You have to kind of look back, reflect, and analyze the root of some of these issues.

Why do others cry ooc about meta info, screenshots or more, that I myself would not really care? At least nowadays that is, is because I don't fear it, and don't fear anyone here. X person had a bad experience with Y situation, so suddenly it's not alright for anyone just in case it happens to them again.

The same thing, if the fire burns you, do you then reach out and touch it a second time? No. Pain hurts, tells us it's bad, protect yourself from that fire from ever burning you again.

What others need to really do is reflect, look back, analyze, assess then own what they did wrong, while at the same time, learning not only what you made a mistake for, but also recognizing the situation and who all made a mistake, even if silent about it all, then learn from everyone and the situation. To not do the same over, if anyone still holds any grudges anyone really.

That's my best advice I can truly give anyone right now.

[FallingStar]

Elitist, snobby, catty, cliquish, etc. These are also words you can use if you're looking to expand your vocabulary.

[Hoihe]

When we are having issues with another player, experience shows that talking our problems out with them directly, as suggested above, is definitely the best way to go about resolving them. It's not always successful, as some people are just going to stubbornly dislike you for their own reasons (or truly, as a result of their own paranoia or trust issues, believe that you have malice and trickery behind your actions even when you're sincerely holding out an olive branch), but it's more often successful than the alternatives.

To me, experience shows,

DM or player, or both in a case that left me feeling utterly betrayed -

They will pretend that everything is OK, pretend to be your friend and proceed to laugh at your forum posts, rather than back you up over matters that are a core value to you. Worst case, it turns out they're trying to nerf Regenerate/Greater Restoration even though they pretended to be your friend and know well it's a core value.

They will pretend to be your friend while participating in a discord/skype group you are not a member of (but someone who is completely unrelated felt bad and leaked you what goes on inthere) disparaging your character or core values.


It is not paranoia if it keeps happening time after time after time again. Whether it be meatspace or geographically transcendent interactions, humans will pretend to appease you only to twist another knife in your back for that extra sweet pain.

[The Whistler]

Worst case, it turns out they're trying to nerf Regenerate/Greater Restoration even though they pretended to be your friend and know well it's a core value.

Top 10 anime betrayals

[Hoihe]

Worst case, it turns out they're trying to nerf Regenerate/Greater Restoration even though they pretended to be your friend and know well it's a core value.

Top 10 anime betrayals

Ah yes,

totally unimportant if someone you trusted, confided in. Someone who knew you well went and intended to use their power and influence to go completely against your ability to play.

Next thing you'll be telling me one shouldn't feel betrayed if their friend votes for Mi Hazánk.