Please Stop Using “Toxic” to Label Something X on BGTSCC

[The Whistler]

Newsflash, your friends can have opinions that are different to your own. You really need a reality check if you believe someone advocating for a game change has somehow 'betrayed' you.

[Hoihe]

Newsflash, your friends can have opinions that are different to your own. You really need a reality check if you believe someone advocating for a game change has somehow 'betrayed' you.

You need a reality check if you think it's acceptable to advocate for something that will make something unplayable for your friend.

[Planehopper]

You both need to take it to PMs or take a break.

When folks use the t word this is what they mean.

[Steve]

Hey everybody, please keep to THE topic, here, in the OP.

I appreciate that you have related issues, I really do, and I encourage you to start your own thread/topic about it. Or, you can send PMs between yourselves.

Thank YOU!

[Tekill]

t word

T-Word!! HA!!!! Thats so funny to me!!

Your toxic for saying toxic too much?

Man, I wish the server would bring PVP back - then we might have something to really whine about.

I don't like to be told what to do or what to say.

But, I used to get angry when people used the term 'Saturday Morning Villian' a lot. It was a catch all sweeping generalization to put down players that enjoyed evil RP.
Toxic can be another sweeping generalization to point your finger at individuals, groups or types. A way to separate them vs us, to point out that 'they' are in the wrong, while virtue signalling that because you can spot the distinction that you are not one of those toxic types.

But Toxic is also a warning about certain people/things. The word carries weight- a red flag word. I might roll my eyes when I hear the word, because it is over used. But I will always investigate the context it which it was used, a bit further, when I do hear it. I have been successfully been able to avoid melo-drama due to use of this word.

If you find the T-word as hilarious as I do and feel it does not carry the gravity of what you want to express, here are some alternatives. Go crazy!

https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/toxic
Synonyms & Antonyms of toxic
(Entry 1 of 2)
containing or contaminated with a substance capable of injuring or killing a living thing
certain plants are toxic if eaten

Synonyms for toxic
envenomed, poison, poisoned, poisonous, venomous

Words Related to toxic
contagious, infectious, infective, pathogenic, pestilent, pestilential
baneful, deleterious, harmful, hurtful, injurious, malignant, nocuous, noxious, virulent
unhealthful, unhealthy, unwholesome
calamitous, deadly, fatal, fell, lethal, murderous

[Young Werther]

"I'm the definition of Toxic.
Anyone who ever got close to me got Sick."



(Vinnie Paz)


It's really all this thread makes me think of.

[cosmic ray]

But, I used to get angry when people used the term 'Saturday Morning Villian' a lot. It was a catch all sweeping generalization to put down players that enjoyed evil RP.

I'm a big fan of evil roleplay, but I sometimes use that expression, or others similar to it related to things other than evil, to criticise some of the unrealistic things taking place due to the server's OOC rules, and not to put down evil roleplay, of which, in fact, I should very much like to see more everywhere. "They say, 'Evil prevails when good men fail to act.' What they oughta say is, 'Evil prevails.'"

As for the T-word (lmao), it's just another buzz word devoid of any real meaning when thrown about like that. There are many such words in the Western World today. I wouldn't worry overmuch about it.

[Azroth]

tl;dr yeah toxic is overused but it's completely fitting in most of the context it's used in, y'all are just grumpy cuz you got labeled for crap behavior.

Yeeep!

A lot I have seen in the past has been in fact behavioral issues that are never curbed due to staff here not taken seriously. In the Discord server in the past even, a lot of issues stem from what I have learned, just a bunch of people whine and complain, clash, inability to separate the IC from the OOC, then proceed to play victim, then redirect aim and fire behind others backs. And so, to combat this often others feel they have to stoop as low as the rest as you then have this mass mob after you due to ooc lies others formed about you.

In the end, make individual sick due to poor and selfish behaviors.

As I said, you have to look back and then realize the root of the problem. It was out of hand for years. That said, I am not in the Public Discord for all the right reasons, and don't have to put up with nonsense from.. well... the problem. I don't know how bad it is, but I have a hunch it's still the same.

[athornforyourheart]

tl;dr yeah toxic is overused but it's completely fitting in most of the context it's used in, y'all are just grumpy cuz you got labeled for crap behavior.

Yeeep!

A lot I have seen in the past has been in fact behavioral issues that are never curbed due to staff here not taken seriously…

+1

[Trinket]

To me toxicity is behaviour from wherein a person or group consistently - with purpose, or lack of consideration, make the experience of individual(s) a negative one and then letting it spread.

I personally don't like the word toxic being thrown around because it labels people as behaving a certain way and can harm their experience - and is borderline toxic itself.

Critical feedback is important and while I'm optimistic about the future of the server and community, that doesn't mean I can't see the faults in it too.

That being said it's disappointing that when toxicity is brought up it isn't being discussed how we can improve as a community, and instead there are arguments about what constitutes toxicity.

At the end of the day it feels as if people are bringing forth their concerns, using a generally well known term to describe how they feel their experience is, and being dismissed.

I agree that the word toxic shouldn't be a word used freely, but we should keep discussing how to strengthen ourselves as a community.

[Tekill]

I do not want to strengthen ourselves as a community. Gross!

I want to be able log into the game and have lots of options available in making life unpleasant for you.

This is a community?!
I thought it was a game, A game called Dungeons and Dragons.

At this point in this very long, evolving process of strengthening our community, the word we should be worried about, is not Toxic- its Harmless.

What do you do with harmless?

[c2k]

"I'm the definition of Toxic.
Anyone who ever got close to me got Sick."



(Vinnie Paz)


It's really all this thread makes me think of.

This thread has me thinking of this...

[zhazz]

I am all for describing the server, and it's players in a positive light. I don't think wording is going to change anything.

It's really an issue of passion.
Some players value certain aspects of the game differently than others, and that oftentimes with a passion since it's something they either care greatly about, or it is immensely important to them for their enjoyment.

With so many different players, from all over the world, and this from different cultures, it is natural that heads are butted. Not just occasionally, but often.

The reason for this being the lack of the all-important "session zero" , wherein players and DM discuss their expectations for the game. Which is of course not only impractical, but wholly impossible for a persistent world with hundreds of active players.

So when you find yourself in an argument with someone else, and you are finding their behavior "toxic", do remember that neither of you ever shared your expectations for the gaming experience with each other. As a result you are both defending your preferred experience, and seeking to avoid unwanted experiences to insert themselves into your time spent on the server.

Cliques form on the server for this very reason. It's (rarely) an issue of one group having a dislike for or agenda against someone. It's pure and simply that that someone have expectations for the gaming experience that are too different from that of one or more groups.

Or to put it simply:
People are not against you, they are for themselves.

Is that a good basis for role playing? Not at all. But this isn't tabletop, and as such we cannot expect every other player to do what is best for the group. We are simply too different, too many, and never had a "session zero". Not can we ever have one.

[athornforyourheart]

That being said it's disappointing that when toxicity is brought up it isn't being discussed how we can improve as a community, and instead there are arguments about what constitutes toxicity.

At the end of the day it feels as if people are bringing forth their concerns, using a generally well known term to describe how they feel their experience is, and being dismissed.

+1

((Just echoing portions of this conversation I agree with, not to say others are wrong.))

[yyj]

What can be done to solve these issues?

Googling "Reduce toxicity in online communities" actually yields a lot of interesting results and will also let you know that it's quite normal that online communities are toxic, it's not because BG players are so bad or NWN2 enthusiats are petty, it's common human behavior.

https://scholars.org/contribution/count ... ate-speech

Maybe it's worth it to explore such options, because these are problems that others before us have already faced and solved, perhaps we can learn something from them.