Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2021)

[Dragonslayer]

Upcoming monk of the long death changes:

Macabre experiments

Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisites: Monk of the Long Death 4
Specifics: The Monk's knowledge of death, injury and bodily anatomy allows him to enhance his natural armor (skin). He gains a +2 bonus at level 4, and another +2 at levels 8 and 10. This is an enhancement bonus and will not stack with other enhancement effects.

Use: Automatic

Death attack

Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisites: Monk of the Long Death 6
Specifics: At 6th level, the monk of the long death gains the ability to make a death attack. The target is paralyzed for three rounds if he fails a fortitude save DC 10 + (monk level)/2 + (assassin level)/2 + your intelligence modifier. Using this ability interrupts an ongoing attack flurry, to avoid this you have to use it at the end of your combat round, or sacrifice the remaining attacks in your flurry.
Use: Selected
Cooldown: 1 minute

- having MotD levels will properly remove G.Flurry and Adamantine Fists from any monk no matter what your leveling order is
- Death touch is now correctly based on monk's character (not class) level as per description. Once per day use is changed to 5 minute CD.

DISCLAIMER: You do not need to RCR your character for these changes to take effect.

While I will miss the kit as is, Mary Sue gamer that I am, I would be remiss if I didn't address what I feel is the biggest issue, in that this kit should be a PrC.

Now, I understand the purpose of making it a kit. Monk abilities are hardcoded. But in making it a kit, it seems to be lopsided as a kit. Namely, as has been pointed out, kits give up one major aspect of their class in order to gain abilities that their class normally wouldn't have. Spellcasting, smiting, etc. Here, there are two major aspects being given up for abilities, some of which are debatably useful, others less so.

If this is a kit as envisioned by the server, I'd argue that both the positives and negatives be reduced so that it can serve its purpose: providing flavor and a different play style from the original class. Take the fist progression, or the adamantine fists, or the flurry, or the movement speed, or any aspect of the class and take that as a penalty in favor of a flavored monk with a death attack, and perhaps a modest bonus in AC (which are the two main draws of the kit), along side the other small bonuses to saves, or spells.

In this way it remains in line with other kits, neither sacrificing too much for too little, and allows players to enjoy the flavor of the kit as opposed to having to decide whether or not they want to pursue a fist monk (arguably a foundation aspect of the class), or not.

Either way, thank you for your hard work!

[Louvaine]

Sounds like changing OP kit to a balanced one. I'll give it a try!

Thanks for your never-ending work on our server!

[Theodore01]

Made my first round in oghrann ruins/temple with the now crippled wis-monk of lousy death.

As expected the death attack is totally pointless, as every creature there had more base fortitude than my char. DC of 24.
And enemies getting a D20 roll + fort vs my DC only.

[Kalgain]

Motld is now more underpowered than the pervious motld was overpowered, thus I expect the motld to be changed at some point in the future. I am wondering if I should RCR right now or wait until the motld will be balanced.

[matelener]

The changes are now live.

For the next update, I'll be looking at some QoL improvements for the MotlD active abilities, give them neat animations and ensure they play well.

However, If you expect a substantial buff, don't hold your breath.

[Grendunor]

[matelener]

Great song.

The changes are now live.

For the next update, I'll be looking at some QoL improvements for the MotlD active abilities, give them neat animations and ensure they play well.

However, If you expect a substantial buff, don't hold your breath.

Don't worry, we know we should just delete our monks of the long death.

I'm not deleting mine!

[Ravial]

[Louvaine]

I don't know, I've talked to some people that said it's too much and we thinking that it's even worse to take the kit than not to take it.

Then... don't... take... it?

[Planehopper]

If you arent asking a question or answering a question, refrain from posting here.

This forum is to offer information related to upcoming changes.

Trolling will not be tolerated. Thanks!

[Truthiness]

I don't know, I've talked to some people that said it's too much and we thinking that it's even worse to take the kit than not to take it.

I think that promotes choice and build variance. Hunter for instance is a great class kit, not the greatest to take on a pure ranger, but very powerful on a ranger dip. Before for monk of the long death, if you went over 16 monk, there was no reason mechanically NOT to take the class kit, which I'm pretty sure is not how the class kits were designed.

If you think the changes were too much, what would you suggest? Given your own claims of soloing the white dragon without taking a hit (with elixirs), it's pretty evident the build was too powerful for the server, so needed some sort of change.

I should add that MotLD (after nerf) on a pure monk isn't even bad, you're still capable of reaching 53-57 AC unbuffed and 39 AB (with flurry and EW). You still do the same amount of damage if they don't have adamantine DR, just one less attack per round. You can cap out at 70 AC still and like 47 AB with the proper buffs (no short term stuff). So I'm not really sure where the notion of "too much" came from, are you just unsure whether you're build can win every pvp and solo the white dragon (hitless) anymore? Join the rest of us.

[Kalgain]

Making it balanced is very simple. Leave greater flurry.

Not counting all the flavour skills that don't matter in combat the effective change is:


- 8+3*2+5=19 skill points
- adamantine fists

+2 ac (not applicable when using elixirs or having a proper group with a druid)

-------------------------------------------------

As I pointed out before, losing greater flurry is worse than losing +5 AB

If this balance needs to be tilted a bit less in favor of motld one could think about removing quivering palm.

[izzul]

Going to test this today. thanks for the change.

[EasternCheesE]

Currently, when new MotLD is live, thus all the exploits of old MotLD are not available, lemme share you a dozen of info how it was vs how it should have been:

1) MotLD had an AC bug that effectively turned it's 3 AC into 6 AC permanently. Double AC bug. Moreover, if someone just relogged/crossed server, they got triple AC bug. Yup. That 3 -> 9 AC. A bit more about it. Monk AC (wis and monk) are untyped AC. Means, it doesn't get removed on both sneak attack and RTA. MotLD had it's ac set to exactly same type, which meant, monk's AC (assuming monk 30 and 30 wis) could never under any circumstances go below 10 + 10 + 6 + 6/9 = 32/35 AC, no matter the attack source.

2) While MotLD stated that it doesn't progress monk flurry, fists etc, in fact, it did, thus, taking monk 5/ motld 10/ then monk 1 would have given everything monk 16 should get. MotLD did only not give those features, but it still was counted towards requirements for them, so they were received right the next monk level one takes. So, having "monk 5/motld 10/ monk 5 again /some PRC 10" shouldn't have been giving people anything that monk >10 should have got. Surely, it's not an issue for pure monk/motld, since they'd have monk 20 anyway.

While these are just two, we can see how extra 6 AC and not locking anything served making good balanced class into "My PvP machine". Guys, you really got your expectations set very high, that's why you feel it was nerfed badly. But i just ran around with my QC monk. It's different now. And it's way more how it should have been, you just compare to broken OP kit you had for long and there is no blame on you upon that.

Just, please, if you want things changed and don't like the update, try to run around with it, look unbiased, give us pros and cons. If you don't like g. flurry being removed, please give constructive suggestions on MotLD rebalance so 1) LD in it's name mean more 2) It doesn't get that imbalanced broken thing it was before. We don't bite and we are open to well-argumented suggestions, after all. Just please, don't start that "imma can't make a monk powerbuild" again.. We know that and it was said thousand times that while we don't deny people to powerbuild, it's not the sort of gameplay we are focused on. We try to make classes balanced, niche and having their RP flavor rather than just making options for "I'm Mary Sue, i go and kill things".

[Rain]

Just, please, if you want things changed and don't like the update, try to run around with it, look unbiased, give us pros and cons. If you don't like g. flurry being removed, please give constructive suggestions on MotLD rebalance so 1) LD in it's name mean more 2) It doesn't get that imbalanced broken thing it was before. We don't bite and we are open to well-argumented suggestions, after all. Just please, don't start that "imma can't make a monk powerbuild" again.. We know that and it was said thousand times that while we don't deny people to powerbuild, it's not the sort of gameplay we are focused on. We try to make classes balanced, niche and having their RP flavor rather than just making options for "I'm Mary Sue, i go and kill things".

I see what your saying here but from the minority perspective of being a power-builder myself I don't think this is true. (And alot of the community won't like this but I don't care.) The center-fold of why spells, classes and abilities are even changed, updated and reverted in the first place are largely due to the power-building community. While you might say that the community doesn't deny power-builders, it is the those same power-builders that take the time to do the math and find those powerful combinations to begin with and thus are the prime reason 80% of the changes even happen. It is also our own creations (power-builders) that people witness then proceed to call us out for power-building then throw it at the team to get the builds and combinations WE construct nerfed to fit this "niche" your talking about. The directive of power-creep in the server is lead by a certain community of people on the server who do the work to find the things that are strong or broken, are shunned for playing what is strong and broken but are also denied entry to the part of the community who makes and test the decisions for those same mechanics they found.

Here are some examples:

Bard: Song of Requiem Nerf - Happened because a powerbuilder decided to display the power of the ability by running around NAKED soloing bosses that the vast majority of the server could not even fathom tackling solo at the time.

Druid / Spirit Shaman: Flame Blade Nerf - Happened because a powerbuilder decided to take the spell into a MEELE COMBAT tournament held near Soubar by the Ebon Blade. Ended up winning with the spell over all the other combatants who were using regular melee weapons and winning what was told to me to be 300bags of gold. (This one I say was just smart thinking by that player.)

Monk Ki Step Nerf - Happened because a powerbuilder decided to show a video of how advantageous Ki step can be in combination with Ghost Step and Hide and Plain Sight. Allowing for a high use of sneak attacks with little opening in PVP only (Which yes made it a top PVP contender at the time.). But had plenty of flaws in PVE that brought it to below average standards compared to some other powerhouse builds that could do more.

________________________________

I could list these out all day but at the end of the day nothing I say will change anything. But to sum up my words: This server has always been catered to Anti-Powerbuilding yet powerbuilders are the leading cause of nerfs and the forefront of mechanical discovery and basic build combinations in the community and are largely denied by the majority of the community for their opinions and denied a place on most of the official parts of the community team to be beneficial to the community. Thus people always seem to be confused why powerbuilders would rather make something powerful and just play a character based off of it anyway at least we can have some fun doing that. But sooner or later you'll enter a party with others or GOD FORBID get into PVP with other players and be swamped with a wall of green text or PM's stating that your character is to powerful and we need to have a more "RP" mindset.