There can be some misunderstanding about staff work process, as i see from people already mentioning "staff fight staff on forums". Even though you can obviously see that Rhifox says they like it the way it is now and i say mobs could be combed down, it doesn't mean "staff fight staff". In staff discussion, we share our opinions and try to foresee all the possible opportunities, exploits, build options, who win from it most, who get hurt by it and so on and so on. We have our opinions, it's normal. We don't fight each other just because we have different view on how it's done properly.Steve wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:39 amThis is a potential solution to the problem. Does it really have a chance of happening? Would someone "comb" through each Area/Map and adjust the mobs there accordingly?
This CPRG is an experience of killing 1,000-to-1 mobs, compared to PnP. Gr. Dispel PnP values make sense in a situation where a player is often RPing, not monster killing, and has far more options in the PnP session to "deal" with mobs, to adventure, using creativity, Skills, etc., but on BGTSCC, that is not the regular option (it is only marginally available to those in DM Events, and even then often hard to come by). Whether a player is a BGTSCC soloist or a BGTSCC team-ist, the main mode of play for the majority of players is mob killing, treasure taking, Boss fighting. It is then only fair to consider the Rate, that being the rate of mobs per adventure, in a CPRG vs. PnP.
Essentially, as I see it, if one either walked back to Vanilla values for Gr. Dispel, or took a middle road of +17 like I suggested earlier in this thread, you'd essentially open up a "middle class" of builds in the CL 27-28 range that now can do what CL 29-30 can do, but still, against the greatest of content—Bosses and DMs—these CL 27-30s are STILL going to get wrecked by Mords and Breaches.
Nonetheless, if and only IF mobs where redesigned per Area to be 1/5 the rate they are now, having Gr. Dispel ability, then perhaps it would make the game still challenging in its difficulty, but not be such a reliable buff breaker.
I don't think the arguments for the walk-back are about MMO rofflestomping with abandon and no risk desires, as much as it is about not getting funneled into lesser and lesser build options, Character options, because of a paradigm of thinking that players need to be constantly challenged.
Lastly, add that a staff-only decision was made to steer players into more and more “loot runs” to increase wealth and score Items, which doubles down on pushing players to become soloists in adventure and stand-around RPers who can disregard Character Sheet stats. This players on a majority react to constantly mechanically upgrading builds, as a way to “keep up with the Joneses.”
The Server is greatly benefited by Staff that are talented players with knowledge on how to “play the game.” You need that for good perspective. But it seems that the entire Staff response in this thread is not “we will consider this request with attention” but a response of “we know how to deal with it; so should you, and the Staff is not hearing players who are saying they feel trapped in the mechanics and prevented from enjoying the variety that the Server offers but is irrefutably unenjoyable.
So please say it straight up, so at least some of us can walk away from this discussion for good (or at least for the next 5 years….): is changing the mechanics from 1d20 + max. 20 to 1d20 + max. 17 a total game-challenge breaker? And, or instead, is the Staff going to put in a mandate that all Areas get combed through with a reduction in Gr. Dispelling mobs?
After so many pages, doesn’t anyone think it’s time to stop the debate with a hard answer?
One thing i really want to try and force into community mind. Staff are people. Staff discuss things just same as players do, we share opinions and try to find the best possible solution. The only thing, i guess, staff does better than community is a "not making it into drama when people don't agree with each other" trick.
If you wish to help and want your suggestions to have way higher chance to be reviewed and into game, please, try to stay as much constructive as possible, provide comprehensive analysis of your own idea. Never forget to play devil advocate and try to put yourself onto opposite opinion to understand their concerns, reasons and good points.
I myself see numerous things about this change that concerns me. Sometimes, it's just feeling that there is "something wrong about it", but i can't express it in words, other times i can formulate what exactly concerns me about such things. Most of them i actually came up thanks to player input and bright ideas, not because i'm super smart.
1) Lowering dispel range does only benefit one particual type of builds with very little change to other spellcasting builds and 0 change to non-spellcasting builds.
2) Making dispels a no-brainer does encourage "buff till your ears drips with arcana and go slashing" type of gameplay. It's fine, but, in my view, we already have quite enough of it on BGTSCC, where spellcasters are already strong with their own limitations. Where there is no risk, the game turns into farming simulator, where you farm loot instead of carrots. I'd rather see actual crafting and farming in this game instead of trying to enforce this style of gameplay on things that are meant to be gravely dangerous in FR setting.
3) This drives our already homebrew PW even farther from PnP. While it doesn't mean we try to stick to PnP 100% times, we still try to not go far away from it until necessary.
4) There are other means to help with the basic concern behind the dispel change without actually changing it.
5) With this change, there is an unpredicatable wave of possibly very strong builds who get widely available, thus, making it harder to zone builders to create appropriate challenge for both powerbuilds and non-powerbuilds.
6) With this change implemented, dispels will just switch from your low CL caster to your UMD-user friend, who will get targeted by them 99% of times you hunt area. Lowering dispel CL doesn't address the fact someone will actually suffer, you just exclude several build archetypes from "suffering list".
With all of this mentioned, i really feel that the best solution would be combing down mob dispels and offering a line of feats that could make one higher CL VS dispels. Thus, we lower the initial dispel dangers without actually removing it completely and also allow for people to plan their build to become completely immune to dispels. Keep in mind, it's just my own feeling and thinking, i don't press that's the only viable solution.
... all I really want to play is a viable rogue/wizard. And one that isn't 90% caster levels with a smattering of rogue. My first character had 21 sneak levels, and 9 caster levels(because I had no idea what I was doing) and it was actually a decent build in terms of having some defensive wards to make up for all those things that sneaks otherwise need to UMD. Alas, along came the first dispel fix that adjusted it according to caster level, rather than character level, and that was the end of that. Even with a reversion of the current dispel, my hopes of making another weird rogue/wiz will forever remain a pipe dream 
