Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2021)

[The_Sorting_Hat]

Alright thanks! Just figured I'd ask to be 100% sure. I wonder how the enhancement bonus works though. Shifter gets enhancement bonuses from levels normally. Is that on top of enhancement bonuses you might have on gloves, or is it one or the other? Cheers.

[mrm3ntalist]

Shield AC: +1 per 2 Shifter levels

The shield AC is enchantment or base?

[matelener]

Alright thanks! Just figured I'd ask to be 100% sure. I wonder how the enhancement bonus works though. Shifter gets enhancement bonuses from levels normally. Is that on top of enhancement bonuses you might have on gloves, or is it one or the other? Cheers.

Only higher enhancement is applied.

Shield AC: +1 per 2 Shifter levels

The shield AC is enchantment or base?

Updated info:

Base Ability increase: +1 per 2 Shifter levels
Shield Enhancement AC: +1 per 2 Shifter levels
Weapon Enhancement bonus: +1 per 4 Shifter levels

[Steve]

I suggest that the Shifter becomes of the Category: Shapechanger, so that Favored Enemy choice and total bonuses would apply when attacking a Shifter.

[DaloLorn]

I suggest that the Shifter becomes of the Category: Shapechanger, so that Favored Enemy choice and total bonuses would apply when attacking a Shifter.

Does it mean they also get to have supernatural instead of extraordinary shifting?

[Steve]

I suggest that the Shifter becomes of the Category: Shapechanger, so that Favored Enemy choice and total bonuses would apply when attacking a Shifter.

Does it mean they also get to have supernatural instead of extraordinary shifting?

From D&D Tools online compendium of Source material:

Supernatural Ease: At 6th level, the character's greater wild shape ability becomes supernatural rather than spell-like. It still requires a standard action and can be suppressed in an antimagic field, but its use no longer provokes attacks of opportunity and never requires a Concentration check.

[mrm3ntalist]

CAn we get details about the stats of the new wildshapes that the shifter can master? Something like this perhaps? https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Dragon_Shape

[Terankar]

CAn we get details about the stats of the new wildshapes that the shifter can master? Something like this perhaps? https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Dragon_Shape

There already is.

Use the spoiler things on the OP post.

The wiki things will not be fully update yet. As per the DISCLAIMER.

[AsuraKing]

Any update on a list of the changes/updates for domains? With the RCR period coming to a close soon the more time we have to look over these changes the better xD

[mrm3ntalist]

CAn we get details about the stats of the new wildshapes that the shifter can master? Something like this perhaps? https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Dragon_Shape

There already is.

Use the spoiler things on the OP post.

The wiki things will not be fully update yet. As per the DISCLAIMER.

What are their AC? HP? Size?

[Terankar]

It is based on your own stats. HP wouldn't change other the change in constitution. That is how the shifter workers in nwn at least.

Size is based on normal descriptions of the different beats i would think.

But they already said such information comes out later.

[DaloLorn]

CAn we get details about the stats of the new wildshapes that the shifter can master? Something like this perhaps? https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Dragon_Shape

There already is.

Use the spoiler things on the OP post.

The wiki things will not be fully update yet. As per the DISCLAIMER.

What are their AC? HP? Size?

AC is based on their DEX and Natural AC stats, with the caveat that you can get up to +10 to all physical ability scores (and another +10 Shield AC, so +15 total) depending on your Shifter level. (If I'm not mistaken, the ability scores stack with enhancement spells... but the Shield AC specifically doesn't.) You can also use Deflection and Natural AC buffs such as Halo of Sand and Barkskin for up to another +3-5, and Armor buffs like Improved Mage Armor for +6. However, your caster level stinks, so these will not last long against enemy dispels. Better pick up appropriate AC items.

HP is based on your hit dice, your feats (Epic Toughness, etc.), and their CON stat. Size is whatever the original creature's size is.

... To be fair, some of it could probably be spelled out more clearly, because not everyone might know what size the various creatures are... but considering it hasn't been released yet, I'm pretty satisfied with the information given.

[Steve]

The Shifter shapes have a low Natural AC as matelener wrote, compared to shapes from the Shapechange lvl 9 spell. But, the Shifter shapes are getting +1 Shield AC per 2 class levels, which is helpful (plus the regular Polymorphing transfers.

Owl bear for instance on a 20 shifter is: 10 base + 8 natural (dodge AC) + 10 Shield + DEX + Tumble + Armor AC + Deflection = around 44-45, more with UMD or Elixirs( ).

That’s how I’m seeing it based on available info

[Rhifox]

It's taking longer than expected. We'll see if we can get an extension on the 100% RCR to give clerics a chance to use it.

As for a list, here you go!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Some disclaimers: Spells/feats are mostly complete, some things may have small changes before implementation, but not too many.

Deity-Domain list should not be considered final as deliberation is still ongoing. List on left is more-or-less guaranteed and based mostly on canon domains, yellow list is likely additions but still need approval, red list is most likely cut for this update (but could be added in the future). Attempts are being made where possible to keep strong domains even with gods that don't have them canonically, but some gods will likely lose some domains where they can't be justified at all (so many random Luck domains). Other gods will gain domains.

Oh, and archfiend clerics are still up in the air.

[DaloLorn]

The Shifter shapes have a low Natural AC as matelener wrote, compared to shapes from the Shapechange lvl 9 spell. But, the Shifter shapes are getting +1 Shield AC per 2 class levels, which is helpful (plus the regular Polymorphing transfers.

Owl bear for instance on a 20 shifter is: 10 base + 8 natural (dodge AC) + 10 Shield + DEX + Tumble + Armor AC + Deflection = around 44-45, more with UMD or Elixirs( ).

That’s how I’m seeing it based on available info

My math's capping out at 57, actually:

10 base + 8 natural + 10 Shield + 6 base DEX + 2 enhanced DEX (if item or Cat's Grace) + 3 Tumble + 4 Armor (if arcanist or AC item) + 4 Deflection (if AC item, or Halo of Sand UMD/elixir, else slightly less if natural caster with Halo of Sand) + 4 Natural (if AC item) + 6 ICE.

In theory, none of that AC needs to come from dispellable sources. Allowing for dispellable AC, we can get IMA (possibly self-cast if we're an arcanist, though that'll definitely dispel in a hurry) and Tortoise Shell for another +2 Armor and +5 Natural AC, for a buffed maximum of 63 AC.

If Transmutation foci also apply to Shifter shapes (I think they don't, but I'm not sure it's been explicitly denied), then a Red Transmuter with Epic Transmutation and ICE could bump that up to as high as 69 with only two external buffs.



On another note, something that just occurred to me... If we get new shapes later on, how (if at all) will we be able to swap our old shapes out? We're not going to have to RCR for it, are we?

(Another another note: Would this be a good time to implement unarmed RP variants for the various Polymorph/Shapechange options? Or maybe an ability to equip/unequip our new form's weapon? )

Edit: Also, I forgot to respond to this post:

I suggest that the Shifter becomes of the Category: Shapechanger, so that Favored Enemy choice and total bonuses would apply when attacking a Shifter.

Does it mean they also get to have supernatural instead of extraordinary shifting?

From D&D Tools online compendium of Source material:

Supernatural Ease: At 6th level, the character's greater wild shape ability becomes supernatural rather than spell-like. It still requires a standard action and can be suppressed in an antimagic field, but its use no longer provokes attacks of opportunity and never requires a Concentration check.

My source was actually the original wiki article, but yeah. I made that remark for a reason.