How to learn not fear others who might meta-game.

[Azroth]

I have held the full details of this for years to myself for a long time, as once the magic is shown, well, you get the idea.

1) Meta-game is against the rules, unlike places such as EVE Online, etc.
- Learning social cues and how to play others into giving up details on your character is key.
PC 2: What are you?
PC 1: Well, what do you think I am?
PC 2: [exposes what they feel they know]

This scenario can go two ways, it happens in pen and paper all the time even against NPC's by PC's and a DM will need to correct the individual OOC and explain: Tell me what your character knows, not you as a player.

2) Posting sensitive info ooc with confidence.
- The more confident you are with your own RP and your ability to turn the tide on others IC when they use OOC info IC, gives others a reason to try and not mess with you. Learning to be confident comes with your own practice in facing what fears you have head on.

3) Don't cry wolf
- If you feel you might be meta gamed, talk with the person ooc on the spot. If they know how their PC obtained the info, even if they give you a vague response on how- take it as face value. If they remain cryptic then don't trust it and take it up to the DM team for investigation.

4) Stop fearing what ever may be said as meta if done IC
- This is a common occurrence where another is somehow ultimately paranoid that they feel no one ever might know who or what type of person your character might be. Why? Because they want that IC detail to remain secretive IC at all costs. This is bad habit for anyone to get into. Understand we all slip up at times and make mistakes IC that might seem a bit suspect. Think of the other PC's as NPC guards in a pen and paper game while you are in Disguise, anything you say or act will and can be used against you if not careful.

those are just a few examples to help others worry less about what so-called meta info is out there and being said by others. Learn to control what you can in the set environment and let go of the rest you can not. As we all can't control what anyone says to another in private or public.

[Ewe]

In my experience having RP'd on PWs for many years, if you have a secret it'll eventually be found out (whether ooc or ic). If you have an IC secret meant for no one else to ever know, and you're willing to have a complete meltdown if someone figures it out, what's the point of having it in the first place!?

[Hoihe]

In my experience having RP'd on PWs for many years, if you have a secret it'll eventually be found out (whether ooc or ic). If you have an IC secret meant for no one else to ever know, and you're willing to have a complete meltdown if someone figures it out, what's the point of having it in the first place!?

Problem is when someone makes a brand new account, and on that brand new account RCRs a brand new level 20 PC who then proceeds to spends its existence yelling some secret to any new player they run into when they see the person they OOCly hate.

[JCVD1]

I will quote someone I REALLY like, that told me something that made me think.

"There is absolutely NOTHING that can ruin a character of mine. Metagaming of her secret Identity will just make me turn around and explore another part of her development" (I am paraphrasing, her words were much wiser!)

in other words, only you can ruin a character of yours. If your character is about 1 thing only, that flaw of your character and you as a player will be the ruin of that character.

Play! Enjoy and stop worrying!

[YYA]

Problem is when someone makes a brand new account, and on that brand new account RCRs a brand new level 20 PC who then proceeds to spends its existence yelling some secret to any new player they run into when they see the person they OOCly hate.

Since that is a complaint you seem to repeat fairly often, well, have you tried not pissing people off?

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As for actual ways you do not have to fear metagaming... Well, do not have your characters on your signature, do not maintain some public journals for them, do not speak about them publicly, and just keep their interactions strictly in character. Thus if you tell a secret in game and that secret is now spreaded everywhere -- well -- you will have a character you can point your finger at in character.

[Hoihe]

Problem is when someone makes a brand new account, and on that brand new account RCRs a brand new level 20 PC who then proceeds to spends its existence yelling some secret to any new player they run into when they see the person they OOCly hate.

Since that is a complaint you seem to repeat fairly often, well, have you tried not pissing people off?

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As for actual ways you do not have to fear metagaming... Well, do not have your characters on your signature, do not maintain some public journals for them, do not speak about them publicly, and just keep their interactions strictly in character. Thus if you tell a secret in game and that secret is now spreaded everywhere -- well -- you will have a character you can point your finger at in character.

There exist people who hate any LGBT characters. I will proudly piss such people off.

[YYA]

There exist people who hate any LGBT characters. I will proudly piss such people off.

I think they just hate the player behind the character.

[Shadowspinner70]

Aaaaaaall riiiiiight, I'm gonna step in folks. Let's chill. Don't go off making jabs or if someone does, don't respond.

[Ewe]

On one server I played:

In the OOC room you could change your player model to another creature model. On server resets it reverted to original model and you had to set it again at login.

The player was so paranoid of being meta'd they made an alt account to login and check if the OOC room was empty, then would quickly swap characters and set the appearance. They would purposefully wait till odd hours or low player count to make sure no one would login while they were.

One day someone actually logged in while they were still changing appearance and said: "((OMG that's your true form!"

The player had such a meltdown that they quit the entire server calling the entire playerbase metagamers and toxic, and some other forum inappropriate words, etc.



But, if you step back from this for a second how was this ever reasonable to expect to never be "outted" and what's the point of having a "true form" that no one else will ever know? I think sometimes our expectations are simply unrealistic.

[Ewe]

This isn't the case all the time, and to be clear I'm not talking about anyone specific in this community, just in-general from my experience on PWs.

In my experience a lot of the deepest metagaming fears come from people who are either control freaks, or have become deeply paranoid that everyone is out to get them.

Maybe their IRL isn't going well, maybe they use this game as a form of escapism, who knows? The thing is, this digital world, they have control over, they can make sure no one god modes them, nothing goes wrong. They can make this world is "right" in the way the real world isn't.

Metagaming is just one way they feel this control is taken away from them or makes the paranoid feel like you are actively working against them, it's basically a big button you don't ever want to push on people like this.



Also, it's just a general lack of collaboration. It's individualism to the most extreme. Like something like this for example:

*Tries to tap you to get your attention.*

(( You can't touch my character, that's god moding me!
*Deftly dodges the tap with a graceful elven twirl.*

(( How did you dodge my tap? I was behind you and you couldn't see me.

(( I have blind-fight feat.

(( I don't think you know how that feat works.

(( Stop telling me how to RP.

[Almarea90]

I have public bio and journal and I honestly prefer to have extensive records of these years of RP to share with fellow players than living in fear someone might metagame them. Personally, I don't worry too much about minor metagaming, as at the end of the day, even the player scry is a form of metagame. If for example a player who has a diviner toon reads my character's bio and IC makes a tarot reading that somehow reflects the bio happy days, it provides an avenue for great RP (and kudos to them for reading the wall of text). I wouldn't do it myself without the player's consent as some people might not appreciate it, but an interaction like that doesn't necessarily have to be destructive.

Truth being told, I play a character who doesn't have any compromising or liferuining secrets (or I don't perceive them as such) so as long as someone can justify the discovery IG it is fine. If for example someone with high Sense Motive RPs reaches a conclusion about my character's psychology I don't really care whether or not they reached it by themselves based on my emotes or if they read the bio as long as they can justify their logic. At the end of the day a player might not have 75 Sense Motive IRL.
In my experience, the discovery of a secret or of a hidden side of the character (unless it is utterly impossible and unexplainable) more often rather than not can provide a new avenue for RP and character development and can be welcomed as an opportunity rather than a grievance.

[DiceyCZ]

I have only had fear off metagame at one point, when my current character, years back for like a week was a blood magus (started as RCR'd). At the time her personality was still forming for me as was her bio (I usually like to set off with a concept that gets polished over the first month of RP, see how the character feels before publishing/finishing anything). To get to the point I loved the idea of somewhat good character with evil power they struggle with and try to control + I love aesthetic of blood magic and it makes for beautiful RP when you find another character you can trust so much, whom you can reveal your deep secret. However the constant thought of "oh god if anyone ever finds out this char is ruined", good PCs wouldn't touch her with ten foot pole and she wouldn't fit with evil. It was so much stress I eventually abandoned the idea all together.

What I am trying to say, is that I think sometimes there might be a cool concept even if just for it's aesthetic that however can be a brutal downfall in RP. And I suppose it's important to pick a balance within "what I like" and "what consequence would be fun for me to RP" and I think lot of the metagaming fear can come from that. Cool concepts are nice, but don't let it ruin your peace of mind, imagine if you'll have fun playing out the consequences of what you are making.

[Rhifox]

How to avoid metagaming:

1) Work from the assumption that all secrets will be revealed eventually. It's not a matter of 'if', it's a matter of 'when'.

2) Understand that the whole point of a secret in RP is its eventual reveal, and the conflict and content that will be generated by that reveal. It is not about pvp or 'winning'. IC secrets are about characters hiding things from characters, not about hiding things from your fellow players, excepting in the enjoyment they can find in discovering it in the course of RP.

3) Have an idea of potential sources of leaks if another player metagames you. Instead of going "They couldn't have found that out IC!" and refusing to interact with it and calling for retcons or whatever, consider ways they could have found out IC. There are many spells, spies, eavesdroppers, even gods outright telling a character that X happened. There are virtually zero secrets that are 100% foolproof. There is always a way a character could have learned something IC, even if the player behind that character didn't.

4) Never yell at or otherwise start drama with a player who metagamed you. A secret being revealed prematurely, through OOC means rather than IC discovery, is unfortunate and boring, but starting drama instantly turns a 'meh' situation into a whole argument and massive unnecessary emotional drain on everyone involved. Obviously, if you are on good terms with this person, you can always talk to them about it, but this should never get to the point of accusing or demanding retcons. Retcons in RP are bad and virtually impossible to enforce (because things spread rapidly), so you're better off just taking point number 3, assuming the character was able to discover it through IC means (even if the player didn't), and move forward.

[Ewe]

+1 to Rhifox

[Azroth]

In my experience having RP'd on PWs for many years, if you have a secret it'll eventually be found out (whether ooc or ic). If you have an IC secret meant for no one else to ever know, and you're willing to have a complete meltdown if someone figures it out, what's the point of having it in the first place!?

I agree, I have had the same mentality for years now as your above statement.

It's why I more or less just tried to coax others into trying other methods in conquering fears etc. I feel like I want to throw something when another 'feaks out' on screenshots shared that might have been a 'cool' shot to save and share memories, etc. and a bunch of other nonsense.

there comes a time when others need to chill out, and relax some about it all. If a player is playing someone with IC secrets and uncomfortable OOC about it all, then they shouldn't be playing such said character at all.

Eventually in the end, all secretes get revealed legitimately. You may not always see with your eyes where others are, some are in the background via forums spying on others even to this day I am sure. So the reality is, the chance of opposition knowing something when you are in like, for example, a DM event is already high if they use the same DM mid-way on you. There's a lot to it all to factor in.

HDM Arra was well known to help some of the more villan sorts, but will drop plenty of bread crumbs for others who investiagte.

Yes, some may be cheats, others less so. But the reality is you can't and will not be able to hide forever, such is the natural cycle.