Half-drow on the surface.

[Steve]

This is a high magic, fantasy setting, why would you want to make it an FR “reality”? If that were the case, the only PCs you would have would be commoners to satisfy your own sense of FR daily life, no?

Every PC is a snowflake. In lore, where there is even the smallest chance of something happening, then it can happen. Let the snowflakes fall where they do!

FR Reality is that Half-Drow are in Dambrath.

Personally, I would be fully satisfied with RPing the F out of Cleric, Fighter, Rogue or Wizard. And, in that limitation of choice.

Additionally, all our PCs essentially started out as Commoners, before taking on the Adventurers Life.

Problem is see…what is really being asked is for a blizzard of similar looking snowflakes!!!

[Anchor]

This is a high magic, fantasy setting, why would you want to make it an FR “reality”? If that were the case, the only PCs you would have would be commoners to satisfy your own sense of FR daily life, no?

Every PC is a snowflake. In lore, where there is even the smallest chance of something happening, then it can happen. Let the snowflakes fall where they do!

FR Reality is that Half-Drow are in Dambrath.

Personally, I would be fully satisfied with RPing the F out of Cleric, Fighter, Rogue or Wizard. And, in that limitation of choice.

Additionally, all our PCs essentially started out as Commoners, before taking on the Adventurers Life.

Problem is see…what is really being asked is for a blizzard of similar looking snowflakes!!!

MOST Half-Drow are in Dambrath. Not all, or every single one. Which makes our PCs, the .0000001%, similar to every other race.

"Many half-drow characters become adventurers to escape the bigotry they face in just about every community they find outside of Dambrath." Treat half-drow with the same rules as plane touched or even grey orcs, as previously mentioned.

[JIŘÍ]

I'll be unpopular but Steve is correct.

I just think in what access to surface could contain (dungeons, xps, time to time allowance to attend an event somewhere in some settlement but that is /= live there)for both half drow or drow. But that's entire different story

[DaloLorn]

I'll be unpopular but Steve is correct.

I just think in what access to surface could contain (dungeons, xps, time to time allowance to attend an event somewhere in some settlement but that is /= live there)for both half drow or drow. But that's entire different story

That's a distinction with virtually no difference. If you lift the crossplay restrictions, half-drow would be able to live on the surface.

The OP never said you should be welcome in BG. There are existing surface races which are barred from the Gate and a wide variety of other surface settlements; those races are restricted to Soubar, Roaringshore, and Uruk Lurra, but they are technically still surfacers, not UDers.

[Tanlaus]

Let's continue, by reading more of how Half-drow are explained in Races of Faerun:

In most lands, half-drow are rare. Since so many drow are irredeemably evil, they only mate with humans by way of rape or slavery. The only exception are the half-drow of the land of Dambrath in the Shining South, who arise from the centuries-old drow subjugation of the human folk of that land

Thus, in Dambrath—which is not the Sword Coast, or the Heartlands, and especially not Baldur's Gate, Half-drow would be equally rarer to a Drow on the Surface, for practical purposes. I say it again: we're playing in/on the Sword Coast, not the Shining South. Just cause there is that .001% chance a Half-drow form Dambrath would hop a boat to the Sword Coast, does not justify making Half-drow on OUR surface realm a reality.

No different than aasimar or any other planetouched (aside from fire/air genasi from Calimshan) that we have in droves on the server despite them supposed to be very rare.

Or gray orcs, for that matter.

PCs are the exceptions. They don't represent any collective movement of a group, they represent those rare, solitary exceptions.

This I very much agree with.

I also agree with others that that the proliferation of tieflings and aasimir on the surface is wildly unrepresentative at this point. If we're using PCs as representative population. Which we are not.

My main thought on all of this, not just half drow but ECL races in general, is that a faction system (yes one of the reasons I'm quoting this particular post) would go a long way to solving this problem.

But even outside of a functioning faction system, half drow should work fine outside of ducal lands.

I think the best solution would be to add Athkalta

[JIŘÍ]

Let's continue, by reading more of how Half-drow are explained in Races of Faerun:


Thus, in Dambrath—which is not the Sword Coast, or the Heartlands, and especially not Baldur's Gate, Half-drow would be equally rarer to a Drow on the Surface, for practical purposes. I say it again: we're playing in/on the Sword Coast, not the Shining South. Just cause there is that .001% chance a Half-drow form Dambrath would hop a boat to the Sword Coast, does not justify making Half-drow on OUR surface realm a reality.

No different than aasimar or any other planetouched (aside from fire/air genasi from Calimshan) that we have in droves on the server despite them supposed to be very rare.

Or gray orcs, for that matter.

PCs are the exceptions. They don't represent any collective movement of a group, they represent those rare, solitary exceptions.

This I very much agree with.

I also agree with others that that the proliferation of tieflings and aasimir on the surface is wildly unrepresentative at this point. If we're using PCs as representative population. Which we are not.

My main thought on all of this, not just half drow but ECL races in general, is that a faction system (yes one of the reasons I'm quoting this particular post) would go a long way to solving this problem.

But even outside of a functioning faction system, half drow should work fine outside of ducal lands.

I think the best solution would be to add Athkalta

If PC do not represent the population then you might end up with 20 tieflings. 12 assasimars, and 8 half drow.

Many people are already annoyed when every thrid encountered PC is a tiefling (me included). I am not sure many of us who are already bothered by that would remain on server.

If from 10 active PCs in Ud 9 were humans (not imaskari) i quess you wouldnt have a lot of fun either.

[Planehopper]

Here is the one and only warning. If you think this is an idea worth discussing, discuss it on its merits without making it about the people involved, or it will be locked.

Thanks.

[Anchor]

No different than aasimar or any other planetouched (aside from fire/air genasi from Calimshan) that we have in droves on the server despite them supposed to be very rare.

Or gray orcs, for that matter.

PCs are the exceptions. They don't represent any collective movement of a group, they represent those rare, solitary exceptions.

This I very much agree with.

I also agree with others that that the proliferation of tieflings and aasimir on the surface is wildly unrepresentative at this point. If we're using PCs as representative population. Which we are not.

My main thought on all of this, not just half drow but ECL races in general, is that a faction system (yes one of the reasons I'm quoting this particular post) would go a long way to solving this problem.

But even outside of a functioning faction system, half drow should work fine outside of ducal lands.

I think the best solution would be to add Athkalta

If PC do not represent the population then you might end up with 20 tieflings. 12 assasimars, and 8 half drow.

Many people are already annoyed when every thrid encountered PC is a tiefling (me included). I am not sure many of us who are already bothered by that would remain on server.

If from 10 active PCs in Ud 9 were humans (not imaskari) i quess you wouldnt have a lot of fun either.

If PC do not represent the population then you might end up with 20 tieflings. 12 assasimars, and 8 half drow.

Is there a ruling anywhere that states PCs do represent the population? Or is this just an assumption by the player base?

Many people are already annoyed when every thrid encountered PC is a tiefling (me included). I am not sure many of us who are already bothered by that would remain on server.

If tieflings are such an issue with many people as you say, maybe we can open up a thread making them application only.

If from 10 active PCs in Ud 9 were humans (not imaskari) i quess you wouldnt have a lot of fun either.

Should never let what someone else is doing ever bother you

[JIŘÍ]

If from 10 active PCs in Ud 9 were humans (not imaskari) i quess you wouldnt have a lot of fun either.

Should never let what someone else is doing ever bother you
[/quote]

I don't.

That's why i already 4 times quit the server.

[Steve]

...for naysayer's like steve who come in and complain on every suggestion ever posted.

I'm flattered that you noticed!

And look an example within the book of a half-drow

And, I'm assuming you meant Book of Half-Elves, D&D 2e:

Half-Drow
The half-drow are outcasts in all societies. The drow loathe them, killing their parents. Other elves pity
them and seek to kill them to end their suffering. All other races fear them because of their drow heritage.
Although not all half-drow are evil, they tend towards neutral evil due to the fact that so many hate them,
they see the world as a terrible place where they must defend themselves at every corner. Many half-
drow are suicidal or at the least put themselves into harm’s way more times than necessary.

The half-drow skin colors range from light grey to dusky grey. Their eyes glow with the same fire that their
elven parents have. Eye color is almost always black or red, but in rare cases it will be blue or brown.
Their hair is often white or silver, but it is not unheard of for them to have blonde or brown hair.

Their ears are like other half-elves, long and pointed. Being from the underdark, they share some of the
drow’s advantages and disadvantages. They must remain in the underdark in order to retain any of their
abilities. First, they have a base 10% magic resistance. This improves by 5% each level after the first.
Their superior infravision allows them to see objects up to 90 feet away. They have certain innate spell-
like abilities as well. These don’t always manifest themselves unless the half-drow is a priest or mage.
These abilities are identical to the drow abilities.

That first paragraph kinda says it all.

I'm sorry if you have taken my posts personally Gholaman, but I have nothing against you, nor am I interested in attacking YOU. Your points however are in contention, being that they are, imho, not taking in the full view of what is Canon Lore for the Forgotten Realms.

And more importantly, how making such a change that is asked in the OP, will effect THIS Server. Both good and bad.

[GholaMan]

That first paragraph kinda says it all.

I'm sorry if you have taken my posts personally Gholaman, but I have nothing against you, nor am I interested in attacking YOU. Your points however are in contention, being that they are, imho, not taking in the full view of what is Canon Lore for the Forgotten Realms.

And more importantly, how making such a change that is asked in the OP, will effect THIS Server. Both good and bad.

I actually did not take what you said personally, I just think you are using a partial narrative of what is in the lore to spread a falsehood, I never once disputed the claims that half-drow are outcasts, or that most half-drow are from Dambrath. Or that half-drow can be from the underdark or any of the statements you have made really. What I have said and will say again, is that what is being represented in the sourcebooks is not what is being represented on the server, the majority of half-drow population is on the surface. According to cannon lore is not the underdark, it is in fact the surface realm. Despite all that you may say, it does not make anything that I have said any less true. But since my post got deleted i'll repost the most important parts of it.

Pages 62 and 63 of races of Faerun.

Regions: Dambrath, Elf (drow),
Half-drow, the North.
Racial Feats: Drow Eyes

And

Half-Drow Region
While many half-drow native to Dambrath choose that region,
a half-drow character living in more northerly lands is an expatriate and loner.
This region represents a solitary half-drow
native to the woodlands of Cormanthor or the North.
Preferred Classes: Cleric, fighter, ranger, rogue. A character
of one of these classes may choose a regional feat and gain her
choice of the bonus equipment below as a 1st-level character.
A half-drow of any other class may not select one of the
regional feats here and does not gain the bonus equipment at
1st level.
Automatic Languages: Common, Elven, Undercommon.
Bonus Languages: Chondathan, Dwarven, Giant, Goblin,
Illuskan, Sylvan.
Regional Feats: Daylight Adaptation, Drow Eyes, Strong
Soul, Survivor.
Bonus Equipment: (A) rapier* or longsword*; or (B) chain
shirt*; or (C) hand crossbow and 3 doses of drow knockout
poison (see appendix).

A half-drow character living in more northernly lands is an expatriate and loner. The server is in Northern lands via the Greypeak Mountains, serpent hills, high moors, misty forest. We have characters from other continents on the server. In fact most characters on the server are not from the western heartlands, amn or the north which are the different areas the server has representation of. The 3.0 lore is not a dispute of the 2nd edition lore but an expansion of it, you posting the 2nd edition lore regarding half-drow from the book is not a refutation of what I have posted. So what point is it that you are trying to make then? Perhaps I don't understand?

[eternal night]

Is there something preventing half drow players from going to rp living on the surface?

We already allow all underdark races to go to the surface with rp reasons, so just go and rp living on the surface.

[DaloLorn]

Is there something preventing half drow players from going to rp living on the surface?

We already allow all underdark races to go to the surface with rp reasons, so just go and rp living on the surface.

While true, I suspect the motivation behind the OP is the fact that, for now, there are severe mechanical restrictions placed on any half-drow that tries to exist on the surface. It's a decent retirement trick for an established level 30 PC (at the rate things are going, it's probably how Ilhara is going to meet her end), but it condemns any other UDer to virtual stagnation by removing most of their avenues for gear and XP acquisition.

[Steve]

The server is in Northern lands via the Greypeak Mountains, serpent hills, high moors, misty forest. We have characters from other continents on the server. In fact most characters on the server are not from the western heartlands, amn or the north which are the different areas the server has representation of. The 3.0 lore is not a dispute of the 2nd edition lore but an expansion of it, you posting the 2nd edition lore regarding half-drow from the book is not a refutation of what I have posted. So what point is it that you are trying to make then? Perhaps I don't understand?

Okay, let me try and be more clear.

My first point is: Just because you CAN, doesn't mean one SHOULD. I take this as a first approach to this idea of Half-drow freely allowed on the Surface portion fo the BGTSCC Server, as a Player Character choice.

I'm also on the Discord UD channel, and I read how a small-but-significant number of UD players openly stated that they'd roll up a Surface Half-Drow in the heartbeat, if they were "allowed." How would that benefit the UD player population? I'd say: not benefit it.

But let's just imagine Half-drow are allowed as a choice for Surface spawning. Where would those Players go to interact with other Players, where would they go to "get involved" in plots, campaigns, RP? How would it affect the rest of the Playerbase when, as per Canon Lore, 99% of other PCs from whatever Race/Background would very, very likely and quickly KILL any Half-drow they encountered, anywhere on the Server? How would the Half-drow player feel about being murderated time and time again, in 99% of encounters? I'd argue not good. So then Players of Half-drow would start arguing that their Half-drow good aligned PC was being treated unfairly, probably both IC and OOC. Then the drama starts. And then Half-drow players along with those Surface PC players who "feel bad" that their OOC friend can't join in the fun with their "evil" Race Half-drow PC, start artificially RPing "acceptance," then BOOM!, we are accepting Half-drow at the dinner table, because of artificial OOC politeness...which, imho, completely disrespects the Forgotten Realms canon lore.

So, for me, those are TWO BIG POINTS that make me question the OP. And honestly, would vote against. But that's the subjective part, and I have no power to make these OOC decisions for the Server...that's Admins' job.

As for Half-Drow Region issues, and the argument that since we have Chultans on the Sword Coast, why not Half-drow because, well...fairness:

The Canon Text says Dumbrath, Cormanthor or the North. There are actually two "norths," which can make things confusing. There is North Faerûn and there is Northwest Faerûn, or as it's commonly known as "the North" or even the "Savage North", and/or the Savage Frontier. Both of these areas are NOT the Sword Coast or even Western Heartlands.

Cormanthor is in the North Faerûn area.
Graypeak Mountains is in the Savage North or Northwest Faerûn.
Serpent Hills is in Western Heartlands.
High Moor is in Western Heartlands.
Serpent Hills is in the Western Heartlands.
Misty Forest is in the Western Heartlands.

So, if we're going to "go by the book" as reasoning either for or against, and not take into account some other MORE IMPORTANT aspects, by the book would mean Half-drow adventurers would be limited to the Graypeak Mountain map, IF and only if, when the books say "the North" in regard to Half-drow, they do only mean Northwest Faerûn and not North Faerûn, where Cormanthor is (thus surely limiting OUR Server to having Half-drow on the Surface).

And even IF Graypeak Mountains is what is meant, that area being the Savage North, it would probably be argued a "why wouldn't Half-drow go to Soubar..cause Steve, there are even full blooded Drow there on a regular basis!"

My answer is still then the Canon Lore of it: Half-drow would be quickly murdered by both THOSE Drow, and by all the rest of the PCs/NPCs there, regardless of Alignment. Because THAT is Canon Lore.

Oh yeah...and as I let myself, I would be remiss to not say: TOLERANCE IS TREASON!!!

PS— Look, you might get the feeling that I want nothing more to "ruin the fun" of others, or that I have a hard on for destruction when it comes to Drow or Drow-playing players. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I DESPERATELY WANT to see the Upper/middle dark be alive and fruitful for RP, for experiences, etc. But it should be it's own RICH DOMAIN! I play down there in the basement too, you know. You just don't "see" me because I keep it secret, as per my own RP interests. And if I would be allowed to do more, I would also put my energies toward making the UD sing. Nonetheless, I don't see how this Server gains "points" be OOC watering down the Canon Lore, which is, that the Underdark and the Surface are very much two distinct worlds, and the ability to go from one to another is extremely difficult, almost to the point of insanity to do so, and that what remains lacking is not the IC, Lore aspect of UD RP but the OOC disinterest from Staff (in general, not specific, since BG history shows that there HAS been great UD DMs, and there continues to be so...but that still have never been enough).

[JIŘÍ]

There are points I agree with you Steve...

... But i still wanna be able to adventure in dungeons and gain xps kn surface and UD regardless of race I play

Exploring server from the other side is always more rewardn experience (as player) then doing twenty pcs on various sides of it.

But the thing of bleeding out player base of UD is spot on.

For UD to be enjoyable it needs decent player base and also opposing factions because if everyone plays in single group nothing will ever happen.

It is all connected. Fewer players = less interaction = less conflict = less fun= even more players leaving =low player base or no happening =no dm interest=no quests =rest of people packing...