Open question to team evil/morally questionable

[Aspect of Sorrow]

In the sense that I am curious about how others feel about their ability to run around and be naughty. Do you find the state of it fulfilling and enjoyable?
And of course what would you like to see improved specifically if you think it could use some?

Reframing expectation, parameters, and IC alliances has made it easier. A slower burn but functional all the same.

[DaloLorn]

In the sense that I am curious about how others feel about their ability to run around and be naughty. Do you find the state of it fulfilling and enjoyable?
And of course what would you like to see improved specifically if you think it could use some?

Reframing expectation, parameters, and IC alliances has made it easier. A slower burn but functional all the same.

I wasn't aware that the Micars were evil...

[Korchas]

In the sense that I am curious about how others feel about their ability to run around and be naughty. Do you find the state of it fulfilling and enjoyable?
And of course what would you like to see improved specifically if you think it could use some?

Reframing expectation, parameters, and IC alliances has made it easier. A slower burn but functional all the same.

I wasn't aware that the Micars were evil...

Then you clearly never paid attention to them too much.

Jesting aside, as a longtime player of a fairly prolific case of being morally ambiguous/evil with the Undercover Type of Play, or rather, the "Skirting the line of tolerability" type of play, I feel I could give my two cents as well.
Particular, from my experience, is that Team Good (to speak of them metaphorically) very much has a deep seated tendency to zone out the things that do not fit their particular branch of what they want to play with, if not meet it with outright hostility. I have had cases of holding a MacGuffin for a plot in my hand, making such very clear, and the only ones to approach me were the Neutral folks because no Good Guy wanted to be seen interacting with my character whatsoever if they could avoid it. Instead, when they got one of those MacGuffins as well (it was one of those Item Hunts that used to be all the rage a few years back, involving Polvich I think), they refused to hand it over unless I was excluded from the Events they took part in.
While IC on an understandable level ( I -was- an unrepentant Necromancer, even if I never much was for undead-raising like Batibat), it nonetheless fostered and raised an atmosphere of being thoroughly unwelcome and having no one to really engage with with the exception of a scarce few neutral guilds. That despite my PCs attempts to stay on the good side of things and be helpful, not-overly-evil or anything of the sort. Going for overt, blatant evil was always sort of an alleyway that was open, as she did get along fairly well with all the Zhent leaders, but that never came to pass either.

Anrilors point of "Good Maintains the Status Quo" admittedly falls very hollow to me, cause the main reason that is the case is because The Status Quo is a perfect situation for the Good Guys with Evil unable to do anything noteworthy. I've seen Good Guys clamor to try to change the Status Quo to something more unstable, to be able to thwart the Evils of the World once and for All, to be vetoed by other Good Guys and then summarily excluded from the Kool Kids Klub for going against the Peaceful Idyll.
Good Guys, in Events, tend to get some way to at least thwart small Evils, or in Large World Events, thwart major Evils.
I've yet to see a plot (beyond Bati's, which is a nice change of pace that I wish I could sabotage a bit from inside You know it comes with Love, Rain!) on the Evil Side result in any major change of pace for anything on the Server since the Olden Days of the Treaty, which ultimately was more of a leashing of the main Evil Faction able to do stuff than it was an evil deed either.
That said, Team Evil also has to jump over their metaphorical shadows and give letting the DM Team handle things with them a try again. In my time with the Blackroses, most of what happened was inter-player stuff that mostly didn't go anywhere in the end or fell flat, or is at least taking forever to move at all. Bueroza turning into a Vampire Lord was also a marvelous plot with DM help and I am sure y'all could do much better if you gave it a try again, on all sides. =)

So... Long ramble short, I mostly see it the same as most others in that Evil at the moment gets fairly shafted, but I fail to see many good ways out of it without Team Evil giving things a go with the DMs and Team Good showing some willingness to not be spoilsports about losing -something- of their Idyllic Peaceful World too. DM Team's doing a good job of trying to shake it up so far, and I hope they do so further.


EDIT: To add the last bit, cause I too forgot to give a reply to Wolfshears last bit of "Ideal Scenario", I'd like to see the Treaty ground to Dust and actual Hostilities resume, with NPC guards hostile to the respective other side patrolling areas of Influence. Maybe even KoS rules on each others respective extremes, to make it actually interesting. But I'm a weird person that way, and I do want to see Baldurs Gate burn from afar, AND I am no longer really here, so I don't count much.

[JCVD1]

Where to begin.

As a former lead of an open Evil faction, I was often met with hate IC and ooc, from players and staff too. (It's not an opinion, I read leaked DM /staff forums post)

Some people cannot make a distinction between character and person behind it.

Being told, in my back, that I "demand things I did not work for" while actually just trying to work with what I was given but consistantly being told "No" and being railroaded into doing things the faction and players did not want to do, in order to keep the status quo.

So, the lack of PC main character openly evil and allowing people to "tag in' and 'join in"... there were people that asked me OOC if we would be okay if they tried to blow up the Thayan Enclave and we said "F*** yes. Do it!" and then being told no by the staff because it would make us complain...Even though we pmed the team saying we were 100% ok with it.

The solution? Say yes to things. Let evil be evil. May it be Chaotic, lawful or neutral.

[Azroth]

Thank you, Wolfshear.

At this time- I do not find the state of evil RP fulfilling due to the following:


1 ) One sided battles ; You can try and let's say murder someone IC who may be opposition, and be on chill terms with someone involved or a few perhaps, but you get some folks over yonder who just take total offense to the situation who may or may not been involved to be affected directly or not. So, now- they want to murder you, but do not want to allow that to happen to them in turn. Due to the volition state of the server of perms, and peoples pride and ego get in the way OOC. Creates drama and becomes exhausting as you end up in a IC/OOC tension lock. . . From RP people may been chill with at some point whom where involved at the time. And other similar situations.


2 ) general OOC hatred to evil sided players and lack of etiquette from the other side ; This is what drives me up a wall... and most have dealt with it at some point from someone on the other side. Things happen IC. Players do not agree who may or may not been affected at said time directly or not, and then watch everything go up in a powder keg Infront of your face, for nothing. People speak about evil and how some players playing evil having a etiquette, but rarely ever breached is about people playing good and how to have etiquette in RP also. Evil and Good are one in the same as far as etiquette goes. And I know for a fact there are people on nwn2 and any other RP server where players have some serious personal issues they need to address before ever coming to pay here... not targeting people in specific or singling them out, we have seen it over a half a dozen times on the forum boards publicly, even. But seriously, get some help guys. It's a disruption. And should not ever be a tolerated thing. I am sorry but we can't hep you as a community, when you can't help yourselves.


3 ) lack of active evil characters ; I play a number evil characters and are in fact main'd. But being able to find characters who are also relevant in a manner that can help kick start /some/ evil based RP guild, etc. Is low as a chance unless you just know some friends ooc and get them to help fill slots through ooc coordination rather than IC, and seems a general disinterest to players abroad. Due to the lack of evil actively roaming, some days. Thus getting some RP going and even some plots that hopefully will not get sabotaged interlay later on, is and can be difficult, deepening on the context. Most of my RP as evil is often just being in the middle of some more pro-good RP as the one minority starting things up, as it's hard some days to be a part of a evil faction directly and get things done, sometimes not all the times. Due to the lack of numbers. So you have to take up a very independent and self sustaining evil RP route, often.


That's a few that come to mind. It's more trouble than what I feel it's worth some days. At least here.

[MrSmith]

I opine the server needs an IC geopolitical issue that resonates with everyone whether they play for team evil or team good. The issue should be strategic and overarching, e.g. Zhentarim authoritarianism supplants feudalism so that it impacts every facet of any character's life. Here are just two examples that will immediately impact and polarize the server population along ideological lines.

#1. Your favorite store is no longer offering 1,400 gp for a tasty item because (rumor: City/Town increased taxes to fund proxy groups fighting the ________ (fill in the blank)) and shop owners can no longer afford the current margins. (Counter-rumor: Opposition City/Town decrease taxes to elicit more trade and business from opposition proxy groups fighting the ________ (fill in the blank)) and are now offering 1,500 gp for tasty items. Do characters' pocketbooks outweigh their ideology and morality? Will they stand by and do nothing?

#2. Shortage of Heal pots and first aid supplies... (rumor: City/Town stockpile supplies to support proxy groups fighting the ________ (fill in the blank)) and shop owners can no longer get the supplies at wholesale. (Counter-rumor: Opposition City/Town flood the market with inferior medical supplies to sow discontent and mistrust).

Cheers!

[AsuraKing]

Suppose I should add my 2 cents in here being one of the few folks that mains an openly evil character and have been not so subtly hinted at earlier in this thread

I will admit I often find it challenging to get involved in RP as of late for a few reasons, some mentioned already in this thread and some not. The main big issue for me that's already been stated a few times by different people is the shunning you encounter daily as an evil character, sure avoiding an evil character makes sense (and I fully expected some sort of it when I made the character years ago) however I'd say over the last 6 months or so it has become ridiculously noticeable with a large population of people even refusing to acknowledge a greeting I send their way. To be frank, I actually kinda miss having paladins get up in my face as that doesn't even tend to happen anymore... Most of the time when I log in, I try and head to whatever zone appears to have active player counts in an attempt to join in on some RP, only to either be unable to go to said places (lots of RP happens in areas evil simply isn't allowed) or simply to watch as everyone departs moments after my arrival. In the past, I wouldn't really pay that behavior any mind as I would seek out and form my own RP with fellow evils... However...

The real heavy hitter for me... The real reason why I haven't been enjoying things as much was a two part wombo-combo the Black Abbey suffered not too long ago. The first part of which was the mass exodus of evil characters around the time of Beroza/Morgan's vampirism ascension (All of which left/stopped playing for various different reasons of their own both IC and OOC), this was just something you have to brush off and attempt to recover from so no biggy there, happens to everyone and it's simply something you need to slowly recruit and get new faces to recover from... Which was going slow and steady until the sledgehammer to the face that was the ToT announcement (Disclaimer: I'll state I am looking forward to it, glad it's happening). Ever since said announcement I have not been approached by a single new individual IC or OOC showing interest in my guild (Cant blame them, we're a temple to all gods that die during the ToT after all) which has left me in this awkward position of RP limbo, unable to get new recruits to recover our numbers and develop our own RP while also being unable to find more social RP elsewhere.

TDLR:
I would honestly say at this very moment, my desire to log in has fallen to an all time low. I've found it very hard to find RP in the past 6 or so months and I am completely unable to rebuild the ranks of my guild to try and spur my own RP plots. ToT needs to happen sooner rather than later IMO as personally the wait for it has killed a significant amount of RP for me.

[Most Horrible]

I would say the biggest flaw is the lack of any and all serious attempts to actually build in character trust with strangers.

There are just so many numerous times someone attempts to talk from stealth, or greet with a dagger placed at your character's neck, or by blurting out the word 'Hi' as if one were but greeting a new neighbor over some white suburban picket fence instead of being knee deep in some monster guts fifty miles from nearest town, or just ignoring all the local laws when in settled locations... And then I could move on to describe the behavior of the actual baddies instead of the goody-two-shoes... but I will not.

Anyhow, far more often than not, I just cannot come up with any in character reason why my characters would show any degree of trust towards characters who behave as stated above that, and thus the best course of in character action for my character is to just go somewhere else.

So what could be done differently? Well, just take example from ancient Homer, Odyssey, and how Odysseus introduced himself by stating a name, where is from, and what he is known of or would like to be know for: 'I am Odysseus, I hail from Ithaca, and I am known as the Sacker of Cities.' And the moment you actually do that, you actually paint a picture of who and what your character is, and it would provide some ground for there to role-play beyond just rejecting or accepting the party invite. For example, you could be just slaying wyverns, but some Scythe Wielding Cleric of Chauntea could be there because the wyverns had attacked nearby farmlands, or villages, while some more roguish character could be there to pick open the chests carried off by these wyverns when they attacked a caravan bit North or South. You can present some in character reason for the other character to go kill wyverns with you, instead of some OOC reason of fast experience gains. And speaking of Clerics of Myrkul, the dead spirit of some Wyvern victim might be clamoring for vengeance, while some Cleric of Lathander would be there make sure no living soul has to fall victim to wyvern's claws. Thus even opposing sides can find some mutual ground to work together from time to time.

But eh, do as you do.

[Anrilor]

The real heavy hitter for me... The real reason why I haven't been enjoying things as much was a two part wombo-combo the Black Abbey suffered not too long ago. The first part of which was the mass exodus of evil characters around the time of Beroza/Morgan's vampirism ascension (All of which left/stopped playing for various different reasons of their own both IC and OOC), this was just something you have to brush off and attempt to recover from so no biggy there, happens to everyone and it's simply something you need to slowly recruit and get new faces to recover from... Which was going slow and steady until the sledgehammer to the face that was the ToT announcement (Disclaimer: I'll state I am looking forward to it, glad it's happening). Ever since said announcement I have not been approached by a single new individual IC or OOC showing interest in my guild (Cant blame them, we're a temple to all gods that die during the ToT after all) which has left me in this awkward position of RP limbo, unable to get new recruits to recover our numbers and develop our own RP while also being unable to find more social RP elsewhere.

I don't mean to derail the conversation, but I have had the same on Aly for the halls. For a long while, the halls was a one woman show. This forced me to be creative and build relationships with others that had the skills and numbers needed to see a task through, even if the religions didn't always mesh. This had the effect though, of getting to know people and their quirks, and what drives them. Knowing that you know how to approach them to help you with various goals, and if they would align with that goal if given the right incentive.

We had a short burst of activity at the start of the year though about May, some ooc stuff happened and we lost a good chunk of the player base again. This happened while the halls was in the middle of its own quest line, and I had to look outside the halls for help to complete it. Even the way the quest ended, Aly took a political hit, and it caused a paladin to leave the Halls. It was sad, but you just have to push through.

But as someone said earlier, evil plots against good, but also other evil people, as evil tends to be self serving. They want the power for themselves, not for someone else or a greater collective.

I think if surface evil banded together under the zhent banner, evil could progress, but the general state of the playerbase, and I have complained about this before, is that everyone fights for the spotlight, they want the title of hero/villain, and not henchmen/supporting role.

If everyone is fighting for their own spotlight, then the light is dimmer for all. DMs are limited in their time and can only manage so many plots at once. If everyone got their own personal plots, they would have to be small, and short, and not very impactful.

My advice, is to find a common evil cause, rally under one banner, and play your part/role for that cause. At times you may get the spotlight due to your skills/faith/position in the cause, and others you will take a backseat and let others have it. Everyone in this thread has spoken about wanting an impact on the server, but there hasn't been much conversation about working together for a common cause.

Good has this issue as well, and most if not all ooc bs behind the scenes is fighting over attention and taking the lead. Sometimes it's better to take the backseat and enjoy the ride.

And now back to your regularly scheduled responses.

[AsuraKing]

My advice, is to find a common evil cause, rally under one banner, and play your part/role for that cause. At times you may get the spotlight due to your skills/faith/position in the cause, and others you will take a backseat and let others have it. Everyone in this thread has spoken about wanting an impact on the server, but there hasn't been much conversation about working together for a common cause.

Good has this issue as well, and most if not all ooc bs behind the scenes is fighting over attention and taking the lead. Sometimes it's better to take the backseat and enjoy the ride.

And now back to your regularly scheduled responses.

Honestly, working together with other evils has never been an issue for me, for a time the Abbey essentially acted as a Lynchpin between the various northern factions and the Northen Barony was mainly a big success for northern focused evil groups (until evil pop declined). So while there’s certainly head butting going about between evils, that’s entirely part of the fun of evil, but I can’t say I’ve ever felt like we couldn’t function in a unified way when we wanted/needed to. The big issue is getting into RP that’s outside pure evil as that is where there starts to be major issues that’s clear on a more ooc level IMO.

[Azroth]

Anrilor,

What Aus is getting at is how some players, and I am not going to even sugar coat it... players... not player characters, (and for a lack of better being able to word it atm) self inserting in such a way of; oh you are playing evil? That's nasty, I hate. Will not even touch with 10 foot pole. Not even speak to them or even want to be seen speaking with them, I want to play it safe! No risk for me... I don't want to fight evil, yet I want to! Can't even RP my good around them to be fighting them!

That's more or less the issue is there's some serious ooc issues over the years in between off and on that's very ooc drama fuel'd that just burns some of us out.

The problem is not being evil and Rp'ing around evil, it's being able to act evil, around good, to create some Rp for the other side, without them throwing some temper tantrum along the way... our job as players who play evil characters is to be evil and give the other side something to chase, but if they can't even talk with us some days, why even bother?

not everyone is like that, but just takes a few to spoil the broth.

[V'rass]

The server has always been anti-evil, and even if it was not the lack of a dedicated evil hub of any kind which has a decent population kills most any rp that tries to get underway.

[InTheFlesh]

Being good-aligned doesn't immediately mean that you get your way, though.

[mrm3ntalist]

Is this a safe space?

The #1 to the success of an evil character is for that player to find a group of players to play with. Do not rely on others to accept your RP. Instead create the rp stories with your friends/group. That is something that many players with evil characters have successfully done in the past. The #2 is to accept the difficulties of playing evil characters, because the truth is that it is more challenging. For example, there was an elven character that even though was known OOC that had palemaster levels and was evil, he had no issues moving forward his character's story, not only because he was always playing with a group on similar timezone, but most importantly because of his stellar RP - both IG and on the forums

TD;DR
The secret of success is: GIT GUD and make friends

[Tsidkenu]

The #1 to the success of an evil character is for that player to find a group of players to play with. Do not rely on others to accept your RP. Instead create the rp stories with your friends/group. That is something that many players with evil characters have successfully done in the past. The #2 is to accept the difficulties of playing evil characters, because the truth is that it is more challenging.

This is worthy of a repeat.