Open question to team evil/morally questionable

[Bobthehero]

Can't lord over much if you don't protect them, there's plenty of reasons a Banite would also offer worship to Helm, in order to control and defend what he/she oppresses, really. They go hand in hand together, imo

[mastajabba]

I know that I have reached out OOC to a member of a opposite evil faction in regards to have a talk OOC about setting up some Roleplay. Set up expectations some give and take ect ect. To get something going. The other player seemed receptive and exited but I have not heard much back from that.

If we are serious about getting things started. It’s going to take coming to the table unless you are looking for DM Centric events for you faction.

[Most Horrible]

Can't lord over much if you don't protect them, there's plenty of reasons a Banite would also offer worship to Helm, in order to control and defend what he/she oppresses, really. They go hand in hand together, imo

Protect? When have the tyrannical regimes ever needed to protect their subjects, when it simply suffices to prevent any and all escapes?

[Azroth]

After reading so much.....

know what I think?.... You don't want to know what I think- truly. But I will say it anyhow....

People here, some, not all- have become far to reliant upon a system and or many systems that they feel failed them as players. I know I felt that before. People who are supposed to be a part of that system have failed me many times over. Doesn't quiet make one feel overly safe in the environment they play in, uanble to be rest assured that all is well, when clearly it's not.

What you need to do, is what I do, or something similar. Make your own system to be more independent, breaking away from DM's at times, and utilization of other systems that have limits and faults. As I said before, I often am out making my own trouble IC, etc. Because I can't rely on an utterly broken system that has way to many gaps and problems.

I know it's not for everyone as everyone has various personalities. But it helps to take a step back and ask yourself; If this is not working for me, what can I do to help myself, with no one helping me? As I can't rely upon others all the time.

Then you start to formulate questions, and those questions lead to answers, and often more questions that need to be answered also.

But it's ideal, until things can be sorted to make your own stories and not worry so much about who says what about you, why and more. Yeah, it sucks when someone from the other side is spreading malicious rumors about you, as they clearly can't compete when the pressure is on, etc. I at times have to remind myself why would I care about some no name who doesn't care about me? The DM's don't help much in events, let alone some of the player disputes that at times lead to rules being broken, and more.

So take into consideration what I say here, and try and carve your own path, form your own personal system that works for you.

You can even try reaching out to some opposing players, if wanted also and see what they are cool with OOC and if something is alright to do with a player's HQ, etc. Alterations and more. I don't do that often, but I do as necessary so I don't god mod. And to be blunt, DM's need players permission to mess with their stuff anyhow, so may as well go to the source rather than a 3rd party.

You can even if wanted, post in the forums: looking for expendables to die by my characters hands for a story, etc.

There's ways to go about it and some are more chill about [x] and [y] while may be less so with [z].

[blazerules]

Can't lord over much if you don't protect them, there's plenty of reasons a Banite would also offer worship to Helm, in order to control and defend what he/she oppresses, really. They go hand in hand together, imo

Protect? When have the tyrannical regimes ever needed to protect their subjects, when it simply suffices to prevent any and all escapes?

Offering "protection" during a tyrannical regime isn't unheard of in the modern age but I won't go into that. Frankly if you are a tyrant it only benefits you to have what you own be strong so that you can you know. Actually keep it instead of having outside powers chip away at you or use said lack of protection to cause more fractures from within. Hardly any benefit to not protecting during a tyranny.

Unless you're going stupid evil.

BG actually seems to be becoming an antagonist right now...

I don't think that's intentional. But I could be wrong I'm 50-50 on it being intentional build up to full on antagonism or not.

[Bobthehero]

Can't lord over much if you don't protect them, there's plenty of reasons a Banite would also offer worship to Helm, in order to control and defend what he/she oppresses, really. They go hand in hand together, imo

Protect? When have the tyrannical regimes ever needed to protect their subjects, when it simply suffices to prevent any and all escapes?

Then they'll rule over nothing and are stupid evil, as pointed above.

[Most Horrible]

While a Banite weak in faith might offer prayers to Helm, a true Banite knows that Bane rules over all as the one and true supreme power. And said true Banite would indeed only be concerned in maintaining his own tyrannical rule over others and subserviance to those above him, and therefore he would not care if his subjects suffer greatly for as long as these subjects remain within his firm iron grasp.

Which brings us to Helmites, ever vigilant, and ever ready to remind how Helm himself has said: "EFF" BANE! And as for those who suffer under the tyranny of Banites, an ever vigilant Helmite remains free to choose who he defends. Thus, nothing really stops a Helmite from simply defending those oppressed by Banites from their Banite lords, and that is so even if the Helmite in question happens to be evil to his core, and even if it would only change one form of oppression into another. Moreover, Helm is Lawful Neutral, he has Lawful Good Followers, and a Helmite who sides with Banites over his own brethen is no Helmite no more, he is but a freshly converted Banite.

Thus any fleeting similarities one might conjure up in structures of belief are simply rendered moot by the fact that Bane himself is of the opinion of: "Kneel before me!" -- while Helm's only response to that is: "EFF" BANE!

[Bobthehero]

And once again, if you don't ensure your subjects are protected from inside and outside threats, you'll have no subjects to rule over, thus painting yourself as a poor Banite indeed, and so they need your protection, they need to be watched and smothered, it's for their own good, for their protection, that you have total control over their lives.

[Most Horrible]

And a Helmite will still say no to a Banite.

[Bobthehero]

Not all would, no. The Good ones yes, the Evil ones could totally work together

[AsuraKing]

Banites are not cartoon villains, and the main reason their faith has so much power and influence in Faerun compared to other evil gods is that they're willing to make alliances and work with other faiths so long as it's in their favor. Banites are cold and calculated, they will oppress their people but more importantly they REWARD those who prove loyal, loyal subjects under Banite rule flourish it's the non-loyal individuals that get put under the boot.

As for other faiths under their rule, they'll allow it provided they arent stepping out of their bounds, heck Zhentil Keep has temples to Tymora and Tempus, two gods that are most certainly NOT subservient to Bane. LN/LE helmites would certainly work alongside Banites and vice versa, though they certainly might butt heads some about how to operate.

Anyways back on topic, the banning of open worship isn't that big of a deal to us evils (Us Banites find it a bit amusing actually) as it's OPEN worship and preaching that's banned for the most part. What I think most of us would be more interested in is the ability to attempt to try and adjust that, which currently simply isnt possible without being on the Duchal court... And that's nearly impossible for us evils to have any say there, with the exception Darkhold's seat, and the Zhentarim arent really in the business of dealing with that sorta thing (they're suppose to be trade focused after all). Giving us non-courtiers some means of influencing duchal court/decisions would be a HUGE step forward for not just us evils, but non-BG centered groups (or solo individuals) in general.

[Rinzler]

I think team evil having a few meaningful wins under their belt would go a long way for morale. I can't think of a meaningful win for team evil during my tenure on the server but happy for someone to correct me if I'm wrong. It's challenging based on what many here have described, and the player base being weighted so heavily towards good makes an uphill battle even more difficult. I'm no expert on how to reach this solution, but I don't get the feeling that team good really acknowledges that evil is a serious threat and that might be a good starting point - let the possibility of losing every now and again become reality.

[Most Horrible]

Not all would, no. The Good ones yes, the Evil ones could totally work together

As a player of an evil Helmite, the answer is still a no, HELM HIMSELF SAYS TO "EFF" BANE. Always be ever vigilant towards Banite attempts at subversion and corruption.

And as a former player of Banites, yes-yes, absolute hierarchy, and all that jazz. But because the amount of Banite players is and always has been very minuscule, you do not really get to experience the true power politics of Zhentarism. In other words, just because you believe that your character is doing the smart evil thing, it doesn`t mean that someone in a lower or a higher position would not see your character either as a weak obstacle, or potential threat to their own position. And I have not even brought up the whole topic of fundamentalist belief in the utter supremacy of Bane, and how any setback or failure could be very well blamed on the seemingly wobbly and half-hearted belief you have advertised for your character.

As for the topic of victories, for evil factions, they have had several over the years but none of those have ever mattered because the average player is playing an adventurer of some kind or another. Therefore, players simply do not have to partake in the faction and guild politics if they simply choose not to. Zhents could quite literally put siege to Baldur´s Gate and you would still have the give or take four to five tailed tieflings sitting by the Farmland campfire, doing their usual things as if nothing was going on.

And speaking of evil character role-play in general, the only time that these players of evil characters tend to reveal their characters´ level and location is when said characters are within their closed guild/faction headquarters closed off from the public. And whenever you only have one guy waiting for something to happen, you can bet your money that they have simply fallen AFK, and why bother even sending a tell? Oh and since the evil factions tend to be on the second server, I have forgotten again how to send those cross server tells, and the question once again becomes of why even bother in the first place?

Oh and if the Zhents wish to claim influence and power in Baldur´s Gate, take a page out of the Iron Throne´s and Sarevok Anchev´s book.

[Steve]

Why things go wrong for Evils vs Goods, in a nutshell: Goods can work together. Evils...not so much!

At the end of the day, when DMs/Staff are trying to spend their energy being as inclusive as possible for players—and the interests they may represent in the guild/faction sphere(s)—it's just not canon lore of the Forgotten Realms to kumbaya together some promising and progressive campaign, which would surely make players happy to get the intention, but would essentially be an uber meta-OOC action.

Sometimes, I think it would be better practice that all Organizations of the Sword Coast—and our Server—be NPC run (effectively DM headed/directed) and Players just "join in" as members, but are not the actual driving forces of said Organizations. That way, the DMs would have an avenue to run campaigns where the Radiant Heart was doing something, and Evil-minded PCs could attack said action, and it wouldn't cause all sorts of strife in the player community.

Of course, also the same for Zhentarim NPC activity.

PCs that are members of these Organizations would have the opportunity to "work with" the NPCs, IG, but the players themselves would not have to "defend my guild" OOC like.

The situation is that far too many times, our PCs develop or are created specifically to "take up" some sort of Role of IC power, within some Organization, but, they are essentially powerless, without DM support. And though the Player tries very hard to get agency to their RP, especially considering their "rank" in whatever Organization, they will hit a wall, quickly, and often.

So why would a Player even put themselves there, especially twice? And worse, what does it feel like for the player how is heading up the "wrong" or "not getting attention" Organization? It must feel like shit, honestly. Actually...I know it does!

What I'm saying is: Evil-minded RP and Evil PCs in Evil Organizations just have a much more difficult time of things, hands down, based on Lore. Add to that all the OOC reasons that one can muster—and yes, many of those OOC reasons are shared with the Good Guys—it just can be a real bummer, to try and make a go of RPing an Evil PC with any sort of positive outcome, for the Player.

Many people have written know a bunch of suggestions, to initiate a change. Is any of this resonating with the powers that be?!?

[Blaze]

I don't understand why the focus is on Zentharim instead of evil PCs.
Plus I don't think everyone is interested in politics, as already mentioned, some want to have power, wealth, fame that doesn't have to come from a guild/faction