Disable Device - success not possible

[Ouroboros]

Are there any known bugs that cause a character with plenty of disable device skill points to get no visible die role and an automatic "success not possible" message when attempting to remove a trap? A party member with fewer total skill points removes the traps with ease. Sometimes it works, so it is not broken all the time. Thanks

[Hoihe]

You must have rogue or divine seeker levels to disable traps with more than DC 20 checks.

This is conferred by the "Trapfinding" feat.

[Ouroboros]

9 Assassin levels, but no Rogue. The rest Ranger. And yes, with mods and intelligence, I think the skill is at 22 or something.

I had no idea I would be limited with so many legit levels in Assassin.

But we are talking about very easy traps here, I think.

I worked hard to avoid the lame 3 levels in Rogue path to this build. But do I need Rogue to handle traps at higher levels?

[eternal night]

Like Hoihe said, only rogue or divine seeker can attempt to disable a dc20 plus trap.

So not having rogue levels simply blocks you from trying, it's not bugged.

Merry xmas

[Blackman D]

if you dont have trapfinding then you dont want to go pass 15 total pts in disable because you can only do low end traps anyway

if you want to be a trapper then you will need to pick up some rogue levels

or put your skill points somewhere else if you dont have a lot in there already

[Ouroboros]

Wow. I hate wasting skill points. Often with a build like this I will have fewer in disable device in favor of other things, but this time I think I have it maxed for 16 levels.

To learn about this so late into the character sucks. The rogue, ranger, assassin build is easier, so I thought I was doing less exploiting this way. It seemed less cheesey or cringe worthy. But now....

[Tsidkenu]

Like Hoihe said, only rogue or divine seeker can attempt to disable a dc20 plus trap.

Phantoms of 8th level or higher may also disable traps exceeding DC 20

[Ouroboros]

So any class, say a Paladin 13 Rogue 3, to get the 2d6 sneak attacks, with able learner, would be able to disable devices WAY better than a Ranger 7 Assassin 9 character? I am thinking of rebuilding my character and losing the 6 levels so the harder traps open up to me, but the reasoning for this seems flawed, or rather, limited in its employment. The Ranger Assassin would be like the students that drops out of high school, gets his GED, travels the world, works as a ski bum in the winter and cleans fish in Alaska in the summer, but when he attempts college, he thrives. All the rogues see his becoming a very good assassin, and they are like, how are you doing this? You dropped out and got your GED? And he is like, I am a Ranger. Synergy. Affinity. Prior Knowledge. Innate, intuitive aptitude.

If I could rebuild all 16 levels that would be one thing, but it would still be annoying. I do read and ask questions. But these subtle changes are not always so easy to find, nor are they consistent in their location.

Just venting. I love the server.

[Hoihe]

This isn't a server change.

This is P&P.

Or rather, NWN2's interpretation of P&P.

In P&P, only rogues can disable magical traps. Well, Rogues, and any class that has "Trapfinding." On BGTSCC, these classes are Rogue, Phantom, Divine Seeker.

In NWN2, "Magical traps" are defined in a rather binary method:
Is the DC above 20?
If yes -> Magical, requires trapfinding
If no -> Mundane, anyone can disable.

Now, I would argue that we should add trapfinding to the Hunter kit of Ranger, considering Hunter is all about the traps (but not give it to base Ranger).

Trapfinding
Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20.

Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

A rogue who beats a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with her party) without disarming it.

Restriction
Rogues (and other characters with the trapfinding class feature) can disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the spell level of the magic used to create it.

The spells fire trap, glyph of warding, symbol, and teleportation circle also create traps that a rogue can disarm with a successful Disable Device check. Spike growth and spike stones, however, create magic traps against which Disable Device checks do not succeed. See the individual spell descriptions for details.

Our implementation is more generous. Search is not gated, only disabling. (or most traps got a way lower search DC than disable)

[Ouroboros]

Thanks everyone for helping explain this. I am appreciative.

I suppose I should have written NWN2 change on the server in an effort to better reflect P&P.

On the forum when I see custom changes, I interpret that as deveating from the base NWN2 rules or game mechanics.

The Hunter kit for a Ranger sounds like a good option. Ranger and Rogue are both pathways toward an Assassin.

At what level does Rogue earn Trapfinding?

[eternal night]

Thanks everyone for helping explain this. I am appreciative.

I suppose I should have written NWN2 change on the server in an effort to better reflect P&P.

On the forum when I see custom changes, I interpret that as deveating from the base NWN2 rules or game mechanics.

The Hunter kit for a Ranger sounds like a good option. Ranger and Rogue are both pathways toward an Assassin.

At what level does Rogue earn Trapfinding?

Trapfinding works the same way in pen and paper and here. In p&p is the same only rogues (and other classes with Trapfinding feature) can SEARCH and FIND DC20 or more skills, which means that here dealing with traps is easier because in pen and paper only a rogue can find difficult traps, same with disaeming them.

It has been this way forever.

Rogue gets trapfinding at level 1.

[Ouroboros]

I went from playing 2nd Edition (and the Basic Set) in my youth to the 2D 16bit video game hybrids in my early adult life, and the first Baldur's Gate was like a paradime shift. So "always" is relative, especially for a game I've been playing since 2006, as I'm sure many of us have, and the rules and mechanics of that video game begin to define the status quo of rules when playing that game. However, I still will not play evil Rangers or clerics that use bladed weapons, even if the new rules allow for it. I can see a Dwarven cleric with an axe and a Warpriest using whatever they want, but still... tradition is hard to let go of.

I get the trapfinding rule. I was just unaware. Assassins likely should have to be a rogue first, anyway.

And I am reluctant to do a rebuild, but removing traps is one of my jobs.

[Ouroboros]

Now, I would argue that we should add trapfinding to the Hunter kit of Ranger, considering Hunter is all about the traps (but not give it to base Ranger).

Is there any traction or consideration of Trapfinding being added to the Hunter? Thanks

[Ouroboros]

You must have rogue or divine seeker levels to disable traps with more than DC 20 checks.

This is conferred by the "Trapfinding" feat.

In terms of game mechanics, does the trapfinding feat work the same for both rogue and divine seeker? Thanks

[DaloLorn]

It does, yeah.