Loot Changes

[Steve]

…I want to see more characters dungeoneering across the server(aka: adventuring) …. Adventuring should be one of the more predominant activities on BG, all kinds of great roleplay gets generated by and spawns out of it, but it seems like it's paling in comparison to campfire gatherings filled with, IMHO, flat socialite roleplay.

For this,I think there are too many areas with too many mobs! Most dungeons give little to no time between the next spawn. And tactics for survival are moot besides build mechanics > mob stats.

This isn’t PnP Snarf-O!

[cosmic ray]

It's possible to ascribe a numerical value to items that way; it's done all over the world in stock exchanges and even on much smaller scale on nerdy websites selling card game singles (my own personal experience). Whether it's ethical to do so is another question. Naturally, for this to work, every exchange must be public in order for data to be gathered. Example:

https://www.cardmarket.com/en/Magic/Pro ... he-Fittest

[Hoihe]

…I want to see more characters dungeoneering across the server(aka: adventuring) …. Adventuring should be one of the more predominant activities on BG, all kinds of great roleplay gets generated by and spawns out of it, but it seems like it's paling in comparison to campfire gatherings filled with, IMHO, flat socialite roleplay.

For this,I think there are too many areas with too many mobs! Most dungeons give little to no time between the next spawn. And tactics for survival are moot besides build mechanics > mob stats.

This isn’t PnP Snarf-O!

And also remove the need for buffs to be viable.

Some builds are difficult to get RP done with in difficult dungeons as either they're just going to awkwardly sit in the corner, or blast thru their spell slots in 12 minutes while they're 60 minutes of dungeon left with nowhere to rest.

[MrSmith]

…I want to see more characters dungeoneering across the server(aka: adventuring) …. Adventuring should be one of the more predominant activities on BG, all kinds of great roleplay gets generated by and spawns out of it, but it seems like it's paling in comparison to campfire gatherings filled with, IMHO, flat socialite roleplay.

For this, I think there are too many areas with too many mobs! Most dungeons give little to no time between the next spawn. And tactics for survival are moot besides building mechanics > mob stats.

This isn’t PnP Snarf-O!

To Steve's point, an aggressive spawn rate when moving through a dungeon can detract from the opportunity to dialogue and develop tactics. Yet, higher spawn rates are preferred when running racetracks (Wyverns, Trolls, and Reaching Forest). What works in one area may not apply to another.

I get enough politics at work and thus have zero interest in using coin and intrigue to advance my character(s) position. Rather, I prefer adventuring as my primary form of RP. To Snarfy's point, I like the idea of adventuring to "acquire" components necessary to craft a wondrous item or solve a problem (not a puzzle).

Cheers!

[zhazz]

And whether i keep an item in storage from now until I leave forever... who's business is that, and how does that impact you in the slightest? It was never yours and you think thats a bad thing?

I think it's a bad thing that something good goes unused.

Look to thy neighbour situation. I have something someone else wants or needs, that I have no need for myself. Why not let them have it at a reasonable cost?

I'd rather just remove anything but the stock standard +1 to +4 items, and let everything else be crafted.

I doubt I even want to know how you propose to do that without a wipe.

Take all the currently available shop items from epic stores, and make them craftable at a cost equivelant to their current gold market prices. Let people keep what they have. Just shift its acquisition of items to be crafted instead of fixed. Like the Waterdhavian Ring from the Darius merchant (+4 Fortitude, +2 Uni Saves, Toughness). Remove it from the shops, and make it craftable instead at a similar cost, but flexible enough that Fortitude can be switched for Will or Reflex if the buyer wants.

I don't see that as being a massive problem like you make it out to be. It's literally just a bunch of SQL tables with costs and cost multipliers for every craftable stat, along with the crafting screen from JEGS to determine the stats on an item. Send the values from that screen through a script that deducts gold from the crafter, or informs them that the item is invalid in case they make it too powerful.

Lots of work, certainly. Complicated? No more than anything else done in NWN2 scripting.

[zhazz]

In short, for gold to be a useful method of trade for gear, it must itself be a scarce and valuable resource. And for that to happen, we have to make perishable things more expensive and otherwise introduce things that people want to actually buy with gold (things that ideally will be bought multiple times).

I will again point towards crafted items. Gold only builds up because the primary way to get items is through random drops, or trading one for another with a different player. If all the named items on the loot tables at least (not RIG items) were made craftable at a given price, then gold would disappear awfully quick. Those same items could even still be available as drops, making it worthwhile to hunt for them to save on gold.

And if we're talking about ways of reducing gold on the server, then introduce a monthly tax system. 10% of carried gold when entering any lands with taxation, substracted the first time that character visits one such area per month. If they go several months without visiting then it's still only 10%.

I know people hate taxes, but Baldur's Gate, Soubar, Nashkel, and everywhere else do in-lore have taxes. It is the only sure-fire way to get rid of gold. And hey, maybe it will inspire RP to move towards tax havens (Roaringshore perhaps?) because some characters don't want to pay tax.

[thepaganking]

I do not understand the problem - let people play the game, hoard equipment, hoard gold, RP, hit dungeons, kill Wyverns, sit at campfires, or whatever.

Everyone has their own playstyle, their own time they can be on the server, and their own goals. Trying to put what you think is right on someone else I think is wrong and contrary to what the game is supposed to be - fantasy. Fantasy is something different for everyone.

I think the server is doing fine and the items that drop are from a random generator, so just be patient and your next great piece of gear will appear. I have found most of my epic gear running the trolls, frost, or fire giants. I have only found one piece of epic gear from an epic boss, and believe me I have killed those bosses many, many times.

I am in favor though, of the ability to buy a 100 percent RCR - I would buy one today if I could!

TPK.

[Steve]

To Steve's point, an aggressive spawn rate when moving through a dungeon can detract from the opportunity to dialogue and develop tactics. Yet, higher spawn rates are preferred when running racetracks (Wyverns, Trolls, and Reaching Forest). What works in one area may not apply to another.

RPing a dungeon would be easier if mob spawns worked on triggers, like passing certain corners or floorplates, etc., then just random everywhere. Or, at least, severely reduced to such. That way, pausing while moving through a dungeon or area, to interact via chat/emote, wouldn't feel pressured/rushed/impossible, by having mob spawns constantly interrupt the ongoing conversation.

Plus, more "blockages" in dungeons/areas that hinder progression, unless multiple PC solutions are applied (joint lever pulling for example) or simply "puzzles" that do not require Player INT, but actual PC Skills (Lore: Dungeoneering; a CHA DC check; Lore: Arcana; even a Move Silently DC check to pass a deadly trap to reach the safety lever).

So much is left to either smartness on the part of the Player (current puzzles/riddles), or dumbness on the part of the player (brain liquifying grind looting). While imho, we have few if any "checks" that actually are overcome by Character Sheet (which is how it should be, in D&D...we can't all be INT 30 Wizards like our Admins!!!!).

[Rhifox]

RPing a dungeon would be easier if mob spawns worked on triggers, like passing certain corners or floorplates, etc., then just random everywhere. Or, at least, severely reduced to such. That way, pausing while moving through a dungeon or area, to interact via chat/emote, wouldn't feel pressured/rushed/impossible, by having mob spawns constantly interrupt the ongoing conversation.

Agreed. The MMO spawner is a very lazy way of making dungeon encounters and is pretty much why most of our dungeons are rather boring. Random mobs spawning in random locations, limited to no hand-tailoring to realistic creature activities/positions or challenging encounters beyond boss fights.

[Hoihe]

RPing a dungeon would be easier if mob spawns worked on triggers, like passing certain corners or floorplates, etc., then just random everywhere. Or, at least, severely reduced to such. That way, pausing while moving through a dungeon or area, to interact via chat/emote, wouldn't feel pressured/rushed/impossible, by having mob spawns constantly interrupt the ongoing conversation.

Agreed. The MMO spawner is a very lazy way of making dungeon encounters and is pretty much why most of our dungeons are rather boring. Random mobs spawning in random locations, limited to no hand-tailoring to realistic creature activities/positions or challenging encounters beyond boss fights.

To Steve's point, an aggressive spawn rate when moving through a dungeon can detract from the opportunity to dialogue and develop tactics. Yet, higher spawn rates are preferred when running racetracks (Wyverns, Trolls, and Reaching Forest). What works in one area may not apply to another.

RPing a dungeon would be easier if mob spawns worked on triggers, like passing certain corners or floorplates, etc., then just random everywhere. Or, at least, severely reduced to such. That way, pausing while moving through a dungeon or area, to interact via chat/emote, wouldn't feel pressured/rushed/impossible, by having mob spawns constantly interrupt the ongoing conversation.

Plus, more "blockages" in dungeons/areas that hinder progression, unless multiple PC solutions are applied (joint lever pulling for example) or simply "puzzles" that do not require Player INT, but actual PC Skills (Lore: Dungeoneering; a CHA DC check; Lore: Arcana; even a Move Silently DC check to pass a deadly trap to reach the safety lever).

So much is left to either smartness on the part of the Player (current puzzles/riddles), or dumbness on the part of the player (brain liquifying grind looting). While imho, we have few if any "checks" that actually are overcome by Character Sheet (which is how it should be, in D&D...we can't all be INT 30 Wizards like our Admins!!!!).

But I was told I'm wrong to complain of having to fight frost giants every 2 minutes while trying to RP outside the frost giant fortress! I was told to stop "Pontificating"!!! That it's unrealistic to expect being able to ask someone who is a slow typer their name and affiliation after you ran into an armed and masked individual away from civilization!!!



In all seriousness - Please tie spawn rates to movement triggers rather than spawning on your head. Ideally, with all enemies spawning on entering the dungeon and walking/patrolling around like Arelith does it.

[Antras89]

…I want to see more characters dungeoneering across the server(aka: adventuring) …. Adventuring should be one of the more predominant activities on BG, all kinds of great roleplay gets generated by and spawns out of it, but it seems like it's paling in comparison to campfire gatherings filled with, IMHO, flat socialite roleplay.

For this,I think there are too many areas with too many mobs! Most dungeons give little to no time between the next spawn. And tactics for survival are moot besides build mechanics > mob stats.

This isn’t PnP Snarf-O!

And also remove the need for buffs to be viable.

Some builds are difficult to get RP done with in difficult dungeons as either they're just going to awkwardly sit in the corner, or blast thru their spell slots in 12 minutes while they're 60 minutes of dungeon left with nowhere to rest.

That's why I'm suprised here it's removed meta magic persistent spells.. What help with some short duration buffs

[zhazz]

For this,I think there are too many areas with too many mobs! Most dungeons give little to no time between the next spawn. And tactics for survival are moot besides build mechanics > mob stats.

This isn’t PnP Snarf-O!

And also remove the need for buffs to be viable.

Some builds are difficult to get RP done with in difficult dungeons as either they're just going to awkwardly sit in the corner, or blast thru their spell slots in 12 minutes while they're 60 minutes of dungeon left with nowhere to rest.

That's why I'm suprised here it's removed meta magic persistent spells.. What help with some short duration buffs

I don't think the reasoning behind it has been shared anywhere. At least it's not on the wiki. Though I can see why spells such as Haste, Divine Favor, Vigor, Death Armor, Body of the Sun, and Lesser Visage of the Deity would be considered a bit too powerful as 24 hour spells. Only way to really balance around them would be to allow +5 or greater weapons / equipment to exist. Which may indeed be the reason, as the server is limited to +4 items.

[Endelyon]

The developers would like to invite everyone who has participated in this thread (and those who haven't) to also fill out this anonymous loot survey as we are currently collecting data on this topic:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=77184

[Theodore01]

RPing a dungeon would be easier if mob spawns worked on triggers, like passing certain corners or floorplates, etc., then just random everywhere. Or, at least, severely reduced to such. That way, pausing while moving through a dungeon or area, to interact via chat/emote, wouldn't feel pressured/rushed/impossible, by having mob spawns constantly interrupt the ongoing conversation.

We already have that on the trade way north of Beregost.
This map became one of the most annoying one, because there is always the same spawn group at the same place. No randomness at all

Also we have a lot of empty filler maps, which serve no point other than wasting the player's time traveling thru an empty map.

Maybe we should just put all the RP (and DM) maps on server1 and all the adventure/action maps on server 2.

[zhazz]

Also we have a lot of empty filler maps, which serve no point other than wasting the player's time traveling thru an empty map.

Those maps are nice for RP though. No looters running around like headless chickens. No wandering monsters to barge into RP. No sudden area-wide battle music breaking immersion. They serve a purpose. Just not a loot-related one.