Dungeon/Leveling Tweaks

[Rhifox]

Hello players!

I'd like to ask what dungeons or leveling ranges you consider in need of work to make the experience better for you? Epic levels are definitely one area, and I absolutely understand the concerns over the wyvern/xvarts changes, but I'm interested in learning what other issues players might have. I'd like to start working on improving some places and would like to get some feedback about what players think is most in need of work.

Thank you!

[Aspect of Sorrow]

12,13 and 14 is a strange lull depending on the build; the Goblin Caves N of Beregost has a nice spawn rate though you can inadvertently lose quite a number of potential kills resultant of the sapper explosions that take out their friends.

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

The first thing that comes to mind is northern low level dungeons. Bane Temple ruins was a great dungeon with many levels that could compete with Hilltop ruins. Unfortunately, it was removed when the Black Abbey turned it into a guildhall and nothing replaced it. I request the same kind of dungeon around Soubar — with multiple levels, with a clear starting and ending point etc.

Also, +1 to AoS point. I'd also add that roughly around 8-9th level Hilltop ruins XP gain drops (and many chests stop giving loot) while Gnolls/Orcs are still too hard, so you have to go to the Cloakwood mines. That mine location feels very depressing to me, despite being rich on loot and having a good gamedesign. Would be nice to add some variety to that level range.

I've recently heard several people addressing the Illithid Hive IG and I agree with them. This is an epic area with rather challenging monsters (magic damage spam and, if you came unprepared, stunlock), but its chests feel like they're of 15 cr. or less. This area's loot level needs a serious raise.

Lastly, monster immunities. Too many monsters have silly immunities. Like, I see no sensible reason why on earth priestesses (ordinary mobs, not the boss) from Oghrann Great Halls have a knockdown immunity. Some fire giants have it as well. Some fire giants are disarmable while others aren't.

[AsuraKing]

The first thing that comes to mind is northern low level dungeons. Bane Temple ruins was a great dungeon with many levels that could compete with Hilltop ruins. Unfortunately, it was removed when the Black Abbey turned it into a guildhall and nothing replaced it. I request the same kind of dungeon around Soubar — with multiple levels, with a clear starting and ending point etc.

This is a big one (Yup kinda my fault ), the north could use some love for more nefarious characters that dont want to start at the Gate.

Another thing that stands out to me is high teens/low epics in the Upperdark. This isnt as much of an issue anymore with Rockrun being abandoned, but there was certainly a major wall hit once around level 18ish in the Upperdark.

[Steve]

Hello players!

I'd like to ask what dungeons or leveling ranges you consider in need of work to make the experience better for you? Epic levels are definitely one area, and I absolutely understand the concerns over the wyvern/xvarts changes, but I'm interested in learning what other issues players might have. I'd like to start working on improving some places and would like to get some feedback about what players think is most in need of work.

Thank you!

The Scaling System helped a lot. Valefort said he could apply the now disabled Scaling System to Areas piecemeal, instead of previously, which I gathered was Server Wide.

How about that for a start?

And the Upperdark needs about 10 new Areas. Then, the Middledark needs 10 new Areas. And then then then...

[gedweyignasia]

Better onboarding for new players to tell them how to dungeon, where to dungeon, and where to gear up. New players need to be given or pointed to the HP gear that makes leveling easier, and they need to know where to get a regen cloak. It's the difference between trivial difficulty and hours of frustration for early levels.

It would be helpful to have regional NPCs in taverns or other centers (near where players spawn, are transported by wagons, etc) who tell players where to find enemies of a given CR in the surrounding area, complete with directions. As a bonus, making these NPCs periodically hand out quest-like assignments/bounties that provide bonus XP for killing creatures in a certain area might make it easier for players who haven't yet developed a social network in BGTSCC to group up through these hubs.

[DM SummerBreeze]

Better onboarding for new players to tell them how to dungeon, where to dungeon, and where to gear up. New players need to be given or pointed to the HP gear that makes leveling easier, and they need to know where to get a regen cloak. It's the difference between trivial difficulty and hours of frustration for early levels.

It would be helpful to have regional NPCs in taverns or other centers (near where players spawn, are transported by wagons, etc) who tell players where to find enemies of a given CR in the surrounding area, complete with directions. As a bonus, making these NPCs periodically hand out quest-like assignments/bounties that provide bonus XP for killing creatures in a certain area might make it easier for players who haven't yet developed a social network in BGTSCC to group up through these hubs.

We had a discussion around this in the staff server and yeah, this is so important if we want to maintain new players. Easier onboarding and quests that point them in the right direction is super important.

That being said, i'd say with the recent changes, about 12-18 ish is pretty weird place to be now, and 20-25 ish, because you cant gain XP with level 30's but those are also the only real areas of value for a character at that level to go, and the only people you can group with usually, so 20 is quite a lull which could be easily rectified if level scaling for parties was extended to 10 levels. This has been brough up tons of times though but it never seems to get implemented for one reason or another.

[whatsittoya]

Broadening the level gap in which people can party together would help a lot.

[artemitavik]

I always had a HORRIBLE time leveling from like 19-23 or so

[DaloLorn]

Adding to the complaint about the Illithid Hive: It's not just the loot level that needs bumping up. Illithids everywhere on the server punch way above their listed CR, resulting in mediocre XP for their difficulty level.

Generally speaking, I find that I agree with everything said here, but I don't know if completely reenabling scaling for a given CR is a great idea - either epic or nonepic. Maybe a few zones in that CR, but definitely not all of them, not without overhauling Ged's loot system to tie into it instead of doing its own thing.

[Tanlaus]

Adding to the complaint about the Illithid Hive: It's not just the loot level that needs bumping up. Illithids everywhere on the server punch way above their listed CR, resulting in mediocre XP for their difficulty level.

Generally speaking, I find that I agree with everything said here, but I don't know if completely reenabling scaling for a given CR is a great idea - either epic or nonepic. Maybe a few zones in that CR, but definitely not all of them, not without overhauling Ged's loot system to tie into it instead of doing its own thing.

I like that illithids are dangerous. They’re not very tough if you can beat them down but those mind blasts are a pita.

As far as the hive I’ve been saying forever to bump it up. Personally I’d like to see the illithids as strong as the ones in the gem mines, upgrade the elder brain and then you’ve got a truly epic area that needs a full epic party to progress through.

Upgrading the chests to match along with all this of course to make it worthwhile.

[Darkcloud777]

The crystal cave is a great map with terrible spawn. I am not sure what you would replace the imp and elementals with but anything is better than those. put something that is cr 20 in there and people will visit the site.

[The Whistler]

Just bring back scaling, it's really that simple.

[thepaganking]

I recommend changing some of the creature mechanics such as dispel, moon bolt, death spells with no saves, rapid fire stun spells, etc. (I don't mean get rid of all magic, but don't spam the spells every time you turn a corner).

There are a few areas that are fun to travel, can be rewarding and challenging, but because of the amount of spells specified above, are not worth the time or consumables to move through. You have to have a specific build and if your build relies on buffs and you are not at the level where your character is at least somewhat maximized, your day is quickly ruined and you either run away, die, or log.

And/or, provide more dungeons and/or areas that are low magic but hard like the Trolls, Wyverns, and Basilisks.

Lastly, I agree with the group - there are level sections that are very difficult because you fall in between an easier dungeon that provides little XP, danger, and fun and higher dungeons where you will most likely die. Others have specified the levels. And, more lower level areas in Soubar would be interesting.

TPK.

[Theodore01]

The crystal cave is a great map with terrible spawn. I am not sure what you would replace the imp and elementals with but anything is better than those. put something that is cr 20 in there and people will visit the site.

The spawns are fine and fitting but are a bit too punishing for most builds and the area is totally overtrapped with painful traps...