Practiced Spellcaster and Hierophant

[bharring]

If you have a base caster level of 16, character level of 20, Practiced Spellcaster, do other mods to caster level - like the Hierophant ability - apply before or after Practiced Spellcaster? So would such a character have a Caster Level of 20 or 23?

[Tsidkenu]

I think you've gotten either your terminology incorrect, or your math. Please post your actual class and level breakdowns.

It is not possible to have a level 10 character with CL 16 (unless I am seriously missing something -Spirit Shaman Blood Magic is the only thing I can possibly think of?). And even if, somehow, you did, Practiced Spellcaster would have no effect because it only applies to non-spellcasting class levels which that impossible character level-CL breakdown implies is not the case.

If you have a level 16 character with CL 10, Practiced Spellcaster would increase your effective CL from 10 to 14. Adding the 3 hierophant spellpower feats (with 6 hiero levels), you would be level 22 character with CL 23. Practiced Spellcaster and Hierophant Spellpower effectively stack for all intents and purposes, but Practiced Spellcaster will only apply to non-spellcasting class levels. Eg. a Cleric 10/Fighter 6 will get the full benefit (+4) of Practiced Spellcaster. Cleric 8/hospitaler 8 will also get +4 CL (hospitaler loses 4 CL progression on levels 1, 3, 5, 7). Cleric 16, or any other pure spellcasting class or PRC combination, will get no benefit at all.

Unfortunately, if you indeed have a level 16 character with CL 10, you will not qualify for hierophant and stay within the 3 by 20 server rule. Hierophant requires 13 cleric/druid or 14 spirit shaman levels (or PRC variations thereof). Character level 16 and CL 10 means it is impossible to qualify for hierophant.

[bharring]

Sorry, I had meant character level 20. But your write up answered my question anyways.

I have a priest of Talos, cleric/storm lord, who will want Practiced Spellcaster. And if I go cleric7/Stormlord 10, I'll be just high enough (13 levels of cleric spells/day) to pick up hierophant 3 before 20. So I wanted to make sure I'd get mileage out of Hierophant's +caster level abilities.

[Tsidkenu]

Yep that's a combo good to go. Stormlords usually are best as a melee STR cleric not a WIS/DC caster, but that choice is entirely yours!

Practiced Spellcaster and Spellpower III will get you +7 to your CL in total. You might want to drop one Spellpower and take that hierophant rune feat for extra spells (they cost gold to make, but bonus spells are bonus spells!). The only benefit of Spellpower III will be slightly longer durations and slightly more SR from your Spell Resistance spell. Neither duration nor 1 point of SR are really worth a potential 6 additional spell slots of levels 4-9.

[bharring]

I had considered a fighter8/cleric12 Stormlord, and that would likely be stronger, but I'm not sure if that's what my character would be.

I was thinking hierophant 10 with Master of Energy and the divine spell power bonuses atop the +3CL, but I'd have to spend an epic feat on non-epic spell power. So Hierophant 8 and Cleric 12 gives me the +3 and probably Glyph, while also getting +1 BAB. So I might do that.

If this character ever gets there.

[Tsidkenu]

I would not consider Divine Spell Power & MoE unless your toon is built for DCs and has at least 14 base CHA.

I made a chart for this if you want to consider your options fully.

[bharring]

Interesting.

The character is, first and foremost, a devotee to Talos because Talos gave him the strength he needed. This had me thinking Stormlord with Hierophant, so he's channeling the storm by popping Divine Power then casting spells, and by dropping Rune of Lighting then stabbing people with his Talos-blessed spear.

I'm rethinking if I should take 8 Fighter or Champion levels (Fighter lets me take Luck of Heroes and more Spear feats, Champion lets me get into Stormlord faster, and has better saves and divine vengence). This would make him much more of a thug, but not as much of a priest. He'd still get to CL22 (before/without Divine Power), and cl18 spells/day (so 9th level spells) eventually.

[Darkcloud777]

I have a current build I am working on. Pal. Sl. Fighter. I hope it's a good build. So far it seems good.

[Tsidkenu]

Just be aware if you drop too many caster levels, your cleric buff cycle will become an easy target for PvE dispel magic.

@Darkcloud777
That build should not possible on BG. Paladin requires a lawful good alignment (although DnD has the 1 step rule I think, allowing for CG paladins of Sune). Talos is a Chaotic Evil deity. Paladins, like clerics, must be within 1 alignment step of their deity. Talassan clerics or blackguards must therefore be CE, NE, or CN. No other alignments are possible, thus disqualifying paladin as a prerequisite spellcasting class for Stormlord.

Ranger/SL/Ftr is a common variant, usually focusing on Throwing Axes and Archery weapon style.

[Darkcloud777]

You are completely right. It should not be possible. I will have to rcr him

[bharring]

Per the Wiki, Blackguards get divine spell casting. If it's like the tabletop, they'd get level 3 spells at Blackguard 7. So Fighter 7 Blackguard 7 would give you Stormlord starting at level 15. While getting full BAB outside the Stormlord itself. And if you aim for Fighter 12 BG 8 SL 10, you wind up with really high BAB (3 short of max), full Stormlord, and most Fighter spear feats. And you'd be a terrible, despicable destroying and despising servant of the Destroyer, Lord of Storms.

I think that build would be a blast. Divine Champion would probably be a stronger and simpler build overall than Stormlord (and isn't limited to Spear), but isn't as perfect a champion of Talos. One of my character's friends, if I ever build him, will aim for this.

As for Paladin of Talos, that's really hard to consider, even outside mechanics. A druid or ranger or such could misunderstand Talos significantly, but a Paladin or Cleric must know his doctrine. And he is a terrible, chaotic, evil being. Capricious and hateful. No follower of him is going to be mistaken for an upstanding do-gooder. Even if 3.5 had the "lawful-anything" paladin concept, it's just not Talos.

[Ouroboros]

Yep that's a combo good to go. Stormlords usually are best as a melee STR cleric not a WIS/DC caster, but that choice is entirely yours!

Practiced Spellcaster and Spellpower III will get you +7 to your CL in total. You might want to drop one Spellpower and take that hierophant rune feat for extra spells (they cost gold to make, but bonus spells are bonus spells!). The only benefit of Spellpower III will be slightly longer durations and slightly more SR from your Spell Resistance spell. Neither duration nor 1 point of SR are really worth a potential 6 additional spell slots of levels 4-9.

I am still trying to figure out these Spellpower and Rune hierophant feats. Spellpower III does not add a CL? Is this true?

And what is the gold cost of these runes? Can you create them every time you rest, one per level? I bet the learning curve is easier once you take the feat and play with it, of course.

Thanks

[Steve]

I am still trying to figure out these Spellpower and Rune hierophant feats. Spellpower III does not add a CL? Is this true?

And what is the gold cost of these runes? Can you create them every time you rest, one per level? I bet the learning curve is easier once you take the feat and play with it, of course.

Thanks

Did you consult the Wiki? https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Hierophant

Rune cost = Caster Level x Spell Level x 10, per Rune.

[Ouroboros]

OK. And that would be great to have something there all the time like Ethereal Jaunt, for emergencies. Does it carry over server resets?


Spellpower III does not add a CL?

Is this true?

[Tsidkenu]

Spellpower III works as advertised. I was merely pointing out that having it in the build described does little for it. Investment in an alternative hierophant ability would be much better. This advice would change for other builds (e.g. caster cleric using Divine Spell Power)

All Runes persist across resets. They have to... they can be very expensive!