Warlock Class to open up Shifter

[Steve]

I must thank ShizzIzzul for this lead in...and it's kinda blowing my mind that no one has argued for this yet, but...I feel honored to be that guy!

Please consider allowing Warlock—which as a Class now very much qualifies with Hellspawned Grace, Spider Shape and Word of Changing PLUS WITH FEY PACT NOW A THING—to open up Shifter PrC.

Cheers.

[DaloLorn]

Interestingly: You can sort-of fudge it already by taking 5 levels of wizard/druid and 5 levels of warlock in addition to your shifter levels. Doesn't come out great, probably, but it's not even all that terrible on paper: Your caster levels stink anyway, and you do get to mess around with zany stuff like adding 3d6 (5d6 with Practiced Invoker) magical damage to your melee forms with Hideous Blow, adding an equally damaging magical RTA to all your shifter shapes with a least blast shape/essence of your choosing (Eldritch Spear looks like it could be fun in this context), or being able to cast Miasmic Cloud or the various 24-hour buffs.

[Steve]

*bumping for a friend*

[EasternCheesE]

Could you please describe your idea a bit more? Having played a cornugon-themed warlock build (who is built around word of changing), i can see how having CL 15 warlock would make it quite garbage (cl 11 + 4 simply because with so low CL you have to stick to vitriolic hideous blow). You lose 15 CL, meaning none of DC invocations are useful, you only get 7d6 blast dice. Basically, all you get is access to more shapes as warlock at cost of the whole sense of being warlock - blasting effectively or CCing enemies or using DC stuff. Also, zero synergy with ranged shapes.

While i'd love more shapes and whole shifter-style warlock gameplay, it just doesn't mix with shifter good as is. Making it synergize would require to add CL progression or specific warlock-only shapes or other boost to make it warlock themed.
Though, funnily enough, warlock 11 - shifter 19 would still perform better than druid 10-shifter 19 because 7d6 extra blast dice when it comes to melee.

So, could you please be more descriptive on how you see such a multiclass? What features should it have, what weaknesses?

[Steve]

I’m just asking for Warlock 5/6 to unlock Shifter, just as Druid/Shaman/Wizard/Sorc does.

As stated by Matelenar many moons ago, the Wizard/Sorc would likely get special forms, since obviously they are the weaker of the 4 current base classes to unlock Shifter.

Warlock seems a fair 5th base class, especially if one looks to the Fey aspect of Warlock.

[EasternCheesE]

While i'm totally not against opening shifter for warlock, i just feel that opening it as is will produce pretty much trashy multiclass that lacks warlock flavor at all.
Could you please think about what can be done to make shifter-warlock a fun thing rather than a shifter with a bit of hiseous blow dice and few self-buffs?

[DaloLorn]

... To be fair, the same argument could just as easily apply to any non-druid shifters.

A warlock shifter isn't too dissimilar, IMO, to a shaman shifter. They both bargain with their patrons to get shapeshifting and a handful of spells, with the key difference being what those spells are and do. (And the identity of the patrons, of course.)

Either way, the choice of caster class for a shifter is largely a flavoring thing, in terms of both mechanics and lore. You're defined first and foremost by the PRC, on account of having put two thirds of your levels into it.

[Steve]

While i'm totally not against opening shifter for warlock, i just feel that opening it as is will produce pretty much trashy multiclass that lacks warlock flavor at all.
Could you please think about what can be done to make shifter-warlock a fun thing rather than a shifter with a bit of hiseous blow dice and few self-buffs?

... To be fair, the same argument could just as easily apply to any non-druid shifters.

Dalo is right here. What kind of Wizard/Sorcerer is not also a trashy multiclass? If you want a totally "role-play" only form, sure, take 3-4 Levels of Shifter for some LOLS, and still have CL 30 in Wiz/Sorc w/ PsC. But...I'd argue you'd just be better off making a Transmutation Spell Focused Mage and rockin' Polymorph/Shapechange.

Any "power" builder won't take less than 17 lvls of Shifter, in a build. 18 lvls plus some creative multiclassing is imho the best balanced power build.

But as for Warlock, I'd easily go for role-playing a Warlock 11 / Shifter 19, and focus on the Fey aspect of the Warlock pact.

What really is lacking, however, and this is related but more in general, is that Forms are limited to what's scripted, and NOT as it would be in PnP, which is to be able to take any form, for Shifter/Polymorph/Shapechange/Word of Changing. If things were different, then imagine the immense fun behind a Warlock/Shifter of guile and deceit, who could change into any form—especially unarmed forms...—and be an amazing infiltrator and/or spy.

[Wyatt]

What really is lacking, however, and this is related but more in general, is that Forms are limited to what's scripted, and NOT as it would be in PnP, which is to be able to take any form, for Shifter/Polymorph/Shapechange/Word of Changing. If things were different, then imagine the immense fun behind a Warlock/Shifter of guile and deceit, who could change into any form—especially unarmed forms...—and be an amazing infiltrator and/or spy.

Unfortunately on this server everyone has true sight via personal spells or wands. I can't tell you how many times in the month I've been back I see someone immediately pull out their true sight wand every time I walk up in any shape. Might be useful for DM events but with true sight seeing through shapes infiltration is kinda moot, sadly. I would happily play a warlock shifter though. Shifter main weakness is dmg and hideous blow plus a few free permanent buffs via least invocations would be excellent.

[DaloLorn]

There are ways to sort-of conceal yourself from true seeing... Rinn had a special costume for whenever she was up to no good.

[EasternCheesE]

Hm, fair points, Dalo, Steve. I didn't look at shifter from this angle. No promises, but you kinda convinced me

[Steve]

*bump*

Just tryin' to keep this alive enough to "go ahead" or "put to bed...". Cheers.

[Kanada]

I would love this

[Steve]

I would love this

[Theodore01]

The key issue here is - that it is the druid - which opens natural spell and casting in a shifter form.
A shifter/warlock would not allow spellcasting in shapes.