Increase Cantrip/Orison limits

[Kitunenotsume]

I would like to suggest and bring for discussion the idea of increasing 0th-level spell base limits.

Currently, it seems like any character, regardless of level, has a maximum of 6 0th level spells (For a given caster type).
However, these same characters can easily end up with double that number in 1st or 2nd level spell slots (particularly with bonus spell items - which never boost 0th level spells.)

In newer editions, the 0th spells are castable for free (slot in what you want and get infinite), due to their very minor or RP nature that lets a caster feel more caster-like for things like simple-attacks. The spells available at that level are not really that threatening in bulk, and not infrequently available from items that permit infinite use (Light, Ray of Frost, Magic Missile (1st level spell on a staff), Electric Loop (a 2nd level evocation on a staff)).

Even if infinite cantrips/orisons were impractical to permit (since I imagine overriding the standard spell-consimption hooks is not trivial), even increasing the available slots for higher level casters (either increasing the base limits, adding 0th-level spell slot items, or doing something like each other bonus slot gives another 0th-level) would permit more flexibility with what are basically a set of mundane utility and RP slots.
This is trivially accomplished by adjusting the values in the 2das.

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns please.

Cheers,
Kit

[Aspect of Sorrow]

People are opting to incorporate a reserved feat for the infinite cast offensive option like invisible dagger.

[DaloLorn]

I'm all for it. My only practical concern is that Arcane Tricksters might feel additional incentive to use Ray of Frost/Acid Splash with Arcane Sneak Attack... but any AT worth their salt will instead go with Acidic Splatter or Invisible Dagger for their infinite offense, on account of their higher base damage (up to 9d6/9d4 versus d4+1 and d3), superior damage types (acid/magical versus cold/acid), and SR penetration.

[Almarea90]

I completely support increasing the cantrips/orison limit.
Certainly reserve spell feats offer a more valid mechanic alternative for offensive spell, however they don't cover the RP side. Cantrips allow to detect magic, wash and dry things, something that is not allowed by reserve feats. As someone who has a fully non offensive build, I would never take a reserve feat but I could use increased cantrip for day to day rp purposes.

[JustAnotherGuy]

My knee jerk reaction was to agree with unlimited cantrip usage. But just to be sure, I checked my druid spell list. I still agree with a caveat; it's been so long since I've played an arcane caster that I don't remember what arcane classes get for 0th level.

For a druid, any spell in 0th level is RP, save for "Cure Minor Wounds" which is only 4 points of healing, so I don't think that would become OP with unlimited casts; it'd literally be 4 points of healing per round, only of any real use in between encounters. (There's also virtue, but I don't think it stacks, so always having a single point of temporary HP probably wouldn't be OP. . . )

[Rhifox]

I'd be more interested in implementing more useful cantrips over increasing the uses per day. There's no reason presently to even use the few cantrips/orisons we do have.

[DaloLorn]

I'd be more interested in implementing more useful cantrips over increasing the uses per day. There's no reason presently to even use the few cantrips/orisons we do have.

... There's plenty!

• Acid Splash: Cheap way to finish a downed troll off without wasting higher-level spells. Also, a last-resort attack for Arcane Tricksters and Daggerspells.
• Blood Vision: I guess analyze stat blocks... not sure how much we want to encourage that though, even with NPCs.
• Cure Minor Wounds needs no introduction. It's not a useless spell in itself, you just don't get enough of it to make much difference. A cleric casting CMW every round is, at worst, a +400% increase over merely wearing a regeneration item... but it's often better RP, IMO, than just wearing the regen item and pretending you never even get scratched. A Hierophant with the Healing domain and Faith Healing can go as far as to heal a whopping 6*2=12 HP per round, for a +1200% increase over a regen cloak. (Non-clerical Hierophants must settle for a still-respectable 8.) In a dire emergency, this can also be a way to kill an otherwise unassailable undead via the "death of a thousand cuts" principle, if all your other attacks are useless.
• Okay, yeah, Daze is useless because HD limit.
• Detect Magic is useful, if for no other reason than that it's a lot cheaper than wasting a teleportation spell trying to get through wards! (... Does it detect dimensional locks, though?) I also tend to use it as a mechanical substitute for casting Mending.
• Detect Poison... is theoretically useful, but doesn't come into play often. (Minus that one time people were selling poisoned potions en masse via Mudd.)
• Dry gets rid of wetness effects, reducing your susceptibility to electric attacks but making you more vulnerable to fire.
• Flare is sort of usefulish? I guess? If you can land a level 0 DC spell?
• Ditto for Horizikaul's Cough. Actually, Cough could also be useful for waking sleeping PCs up! It's guaranteed to only deal 1 damage, which is just enough to break a sleep effect.
• Inflict Minor Wounds is not nearly as useful as Cure Minor Wounds, sadly, but with Blast Infidel, it can almost measure up to the offensive uses of CMW.
• Launch Stone and Ray of Frost are okayish last-resort attacks for Arcane Tricksters and Daggerspells (which will, admittedly, probably prefer a reserve feat with a lot more bite than their d4+1).
• As you keep rolling out your new lighting system to more maps, Light is growing increasingly valuable to those poor saps without darkvision.
• Mark Plant/Rune are always nice to have a lot of. I can't tell you how many times I've run out of it when I needed it. (Conversely, I can't tell you how many times I've prepared a bunch of it before lamenting that I didn't take more Dry, Rinse, or Cure Minor Wounds...) It's even more valuable if you pair it with a few physical runes and Dimension Door, to use as a sort of "checkpoint" system while dungeoning. The other day, I saved my whole party from a TPK with that combo, by porting us to my last checkpoint so we could escape.
• Resistance might be sort-of useful if it stacks with Conviction and Greater/Superior Resistance. It probably doesn't, so yeah, just about useless.
• IIRC, Silent Portal doesn't actually work.
• Touch of Fatigue is less useful than Flare. Is that useless? ... Probably...
• Virtue might pair interestingly with Horizikaul's Cough as a safe way of waking a sleeping ally up. The downside is, you need a priest and a mage to make it work. Otherwise, yeah, useless.