Rhifox wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:33 am
Proposal 1: Level Cap 15
Reduce the level cap to 15. This is the biggest change to the way the server functions, but it also fixes the most foundational problems. Monsters can be used straight out of the monster manual with limited changes needed beyond coding their special abilities. Spells can be reset back to their original values. Characters have the appropriate number of attacks, the amount of content available for everyone is essentially doubled as there would be a squishing of the level range. More people to group with because the gap is smaller. Less access to gamebreaking spells. We could also remove 3b20.
The issues with this proposal is that it requires the biggest change to you, the players. You lose many levels, and have less options for customization. Your gear has to be scaled down to match the new environment, if not wiped entirely. Epic-level feats you've come to rely on will no longer be available (EDM, Expose Weakness, Epic Precision, etc).
Some ways we can address some of these problems:
- Open up access to templates to provide a new form of progression.
- Do an E6 style of progression where you can continue to unlock feats as you gain experience, without increasing actual level. This increases diversity and customization without increasing overall power.
- Adjust problematic mobs like undead so that essential epic feats like Epic Precision are no longer needed. (it's also less needed because of the content scrunch increasing the number of areas players have access to for their level range)
Proposal 2: FRCS Epic Rules
Use the epic level system provided by the Forgotten Realms Campaign manual. In the FRCS epic level system, standard leveling stops at 20. You no longer gain traditional levels, you never gain epic level feats, and so on. Instead, at every epic level, you choose from a selection of 'Epic Level Benefits'. These benefits are:
- +1 Effective Level (gain a level in a class, acquiring its features and skill points, but no increase to BAB, HD, or saving throws).
- +1 to an Ability Score
- +1 to Attack Rolls (this increases AB, but not APR)
- +1 Bonus Spell Level (1 spell slot per day above your current limit. Eg 10th level slots, 11th level, and so on, used for metamagic and such). Only selectable if you have 20 levels in a spellcasting class. Due to NWN2 limits on our ability to go above (or support) spell levels above 9, we could instead replace this benefit with one epic spell instead.
- Taking levels in some epic-level-only PRC.
As the basic combat numbers don't improve after 20, this reduces the challenge of developing content and encounters while still providing some level of epic level progress and customization. Due to being a change to how progression works, established characters would be reset to the new 'soft cap' of 20, and then build up from there under the new system. We can also remove 3b20 in this system.
This again has the issue with losing epic feats and requiring changes to current equipment, as well as dropping characters from level 30 to level 20, but maintains all the same options to address it as in proposal 1.
Proposal 3: 4 APR Cap
Use the current system, but cap BAB APR to 4. This is closer to the epic rules in the Epic Level Handbook. Content still requires scaling up for the Mechanic 30 Narrative 15 model, but otherwise nothing changes from how you play now. Damage output becomes more reasonable, making combat slower and less swingy.
Proposal 4: No Change
Stay the course, continue developing for the current NWN2 systems, including increasing APR etc. Because this risks the pve rework moving from inflated HP to inflated APR (as my earliest blueprints has shown monsters with lower HP than they do on live but higher damage output, with groups of mobs adding to this issue), this likely requires more homebrewing in order to address the balance issues inherent in this system (it might, for example, require players and mobs to have higher HP than current, and give some level of progression to spell damage in order to keep up with melee damage, etc), but requires the least change to how players currently play.
Regardless of all of whichever of these are done, I plan on adding an in-game building app to allow players to plan out their builds on live. This is the easiest way to getting around the issues with NWN2db being too old for BG, as an in-game builder app can pull directly from the game's own files.
Thank you for your thoughts.
My Vote would be 2, so long as RP EXP will still allow for progression into the epics. I played on a server in the past that had a soft cap at 20, that only allowed 21 through DM events, and that is just not feasable as many pointed out, there are not enough DMs to go around for all players at all times. If we had the proper ratio of a DM per 4 players, at all times, maybe, but current staffing as it is, its just not feasable to hold epic levels in reserve for those that get DM events.
Also most of our current CR 1-20 areas are fairly well balanced from spending my time in them, and we'd just have to extend that to our 21-30CR areas, most of the background rebalance would be there, but that would also be there for proposal 4. alot of our epic areas were built and designed to generally defeat x builds. This was poor design as others revolved in through, new classes added, new builds found, and then new areas added to try and counter that. MM was thrown out and things were given dumb resistances that they did not have in MM just to try and make it "harder." A white dragon with fire immunity rather then weakness throws off the narrative of fighting such a creature, and limits who you can bring with, due to some build being useless against it other then a buffer and then twirl your thumbs and wait for the massive hp pool to finally drop.
also the CR 21-30 areas could be there just for higher chances of rarer loot drop, but to earn a character capable to do so, you do have to interact with the wider community. We do say we are an RP community, that is how we advertise ourselves, so some incentive to play that way should be in place. I do feel this would be an execellent way to ensure highs play with lows, and I think expanding our level spread for exp gain could be widened further. Some of the best time I had as a lowbie Alyssia was just walking with Aaron in higher CR areas with him on parry mode RPing so he didn't kill the mobs and I could attack them, and we'd talk about martial things, or other stuff going on in the city while grinding both RP and mob exp. I do feel sympathetic to those older players that have busy lives and just want to log on for an hour or two a week and be able to run off and murderhobo (I say that with affection) things. I admit that is not my play style, so I would ask for those that do play that way, what is the difference in doing that at level 20 or level 30 other then just more mechanics to play with? You guys are usually the ones to find plot items in loot tables when DMs place them there, and we love and need you when you show up and go "Hey I found x item, seems important, anyone looking for these?"
Also by limiting 20 as the soft cap, murderhobos can help most of the new characters get to that 20, and 20-30 is the RP area, is where RP takes place to "earn the status of that powerful character." start partcipating in those wider DM narratives, gain knowledge and connections outside of what was your grind group, and start participating in the wider server story. That's not to say DMs can't run lowbie one offs or smaller 2-3 part stories, but generally those that play here want the larger stories that involve more people and aspects, and that needs to be balanced with the DMs skill to manage many people doing many things.
I know a Vault wipe is a very touchy subject, even with the prospect of holding onto your character. There are several active players here that do have a pride in the virtual items they have managed to recover from bosses, chests, monsters, and DMs. However as the server went on, item power has flucuated growing and shrinking to try and manage some sort of "Balance" but then things were "Grandfathered" in and that only served to cause problems with the new player base coming in, hearing the shouting and complaining about how x player has y item and they can never have it, because its not in game any more, has been a long standing point of conflict with older players returning with items that are more powerful then what is currently allowed. We've tried to ask to turn those items in and adjusting them, we've tried all sorts of options to fix this wider issue, without ever true resolve, the complaints always continued. A vault wipe, with a specific note of item power levels and rarity, would remove this long standing argument between new and old players, and give everyone a fresh start. This would be a perfect time to do it, with the narrative of "ToT has broken all magical items, the rise of the new Mystra, she wiped all magical items clean slate and made non magical." OOCly if we are going to change our CR areas and rebalance them, rebalancing our items as well should at least be a possibility. Obviously the DM team could home brew a million reasons why magical items lost their magical abilities. If we did the vault wipe, I would recommend stricter and lower then expected item power, and only slowly open the gates to higher power items and watch for balance changes over time, or at the very least, use those skilled in mechanics and analytics to try and predict the overall outcome of item power increases. Item power should only increase, never decrease, if we do have to decrease, all items being removed, needs to be removed or adjusted if DM item, no more grandfathering.
Lastly, for those that showed interest in 1 or 2 but felt it would be a lot to ask of the Dev team, I don't believe they would have offered the possibilities if they were not willing to put in the work for them. But that is just my reading into the options, no one should give an option they are not willing to undertake. Watching Rhifox in action this last year as server administrator has been uplifting for sure, when she gets an idea or concept in her head, she will see it through, and I love that work ethic about her that she puts into this community, along with the rest of the Devs that I had the privlage to work next to.
TL;DR
Option 2, with vault wipe but keep your characters, RP exp for 20-30
Sunmaster Barristan Schulltze 
