Changes to non-damage causing spells to make them useful...

[Ahku]

Hello!

I was wondering if it would be possible to tweak the non-damage causing spells to be more effective?

I mean what happened to the caster who incapacitates a foe or three with a sleep, hold person / monster spell?
These are some of my favorite PnP spells, but are useless here...

I for one am tired of always choosing the same spells for my casters (magic missile, lesser/greater missile storm, acid evocation for warlocks, etc).

What if something can be done about it like:
Add a non visible/droppable token to any caster's inventory that boosts the effectiveness of non-damage causing spells / evocations, etc...

Just curious about others think...

~Ahku

[Snarfy]

The enchantment line of spells has been rendered obsolete by inflated mobs for.... ever. I've tried to make an enchanter a few times (one named Tim the Enchanter, shameless Monty Python plug), but they never panned out. It's a shame, playing a capable enchanter would be loads of fun I think, but you're right, every mage on the coast pretty much has the same spellbook

[Deathgrowl]

With the PvE rework, saves will be somewhat different (for sure less inflated).

That said, DC casters are perfectly viable as it is. Even at the more mediocre end of DCs. But you got to manage your expectations a bit: It's not easy to solo with a mage to begin with, but it can be done. Especially as an enchanter. Dominate Monster gives you in most cases a better companion than anything you can summon in higher levels. Soloing bosses is always going to be difficult, probably.

But why solo as a mage? Mages are overlords! Get some minions!

[Louvaine]

DC casters can work, you just have to learn how to play them on BG. Deathgrowl pretty much nailed it here, I'll just add that if you absolutely have to solo player, you might want to invest in some meatshield. Check out https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Summoning.

[Ahku]

It's not a desire to solo that brings this up every so often, just the need to actually be USEFUL to a party in a fight...

If a caster could incapacitate a foe or three with a sleep or hold spell that would be ideal...

As it is, it seems they are always dragging a summoned party...and this is not for me.

so, would it be possible to add an item that boosts the effectiveness for these types of spells, or am i dreaming?

thanks,

~Ahku

[Deathgrowl]

As I said, this is already very much possible. In fact in 2012 I kind of shut down the entire finale event of a metaplot by using a Mass Hold Monster on the enemies. Not the best spell, but it was the one I had prepared, and it was quite funny!

In normal day-to-day content, it's also very much viable just as it is right now. Depending on which school you choose, there are some amazing spells available. For Illusion, for example, Solipsism and Mass Deafness/Blindness are both fantastic. For Enchantment Dominate Monster and Hiss of Sleep has great uses. And lets not even begin to list up the powerful Necromancy save vs lose effects. And then there's Transmutation and Flesh to Stone - I don't think there's any NPC on the server that is immune to it except maybe some bosses, but then only because of high saves and epic resilience.

But you have to consciously choose to be that kind of caster. A controller. That means picking spell focuses and improving your intelligence or charisma depending on whether you are wizard or sorcerer.

There are already some items with spell focuses on them, though I always considered this super cheap design. Kind of devalues build choices. In general, having feats on items is a bad idea in my view.

[whatever123]

It's not a desire to solo that brings this up every so often, just the need to actually be USEFUL to a party in a fight...

If a caster could incapacitate a foe or three with a sleep or hold spell that would be ideal...

As it is, it seems they are always dragging a summoned party...and this is not for me.

so, would it be possible to add an item that boosts the effectiveness for these types of spells, or am i dreaming?

thanks,

~Ahku

One thing to note is that because of the high saves, you need to rely a bit more on enervation (or energy drain if you are a cleric). They are very good spells against anything that isn't immune to them (mostly non-living creatures, but here also some others are immune?).

Also, spells that have "no spell resistance" are much better DC wise than other spells, since most bosses and some non-bosses get huge boosts to saves from their spellcraft skill. E.g. the Lich in the ice cave can be disabled by whirlpool, but disintegrate will not work well.

[Deathgrowl]

One thing to note is that because of the high saves, you need to rely a bit more on enervation (or energy drain if you are a cleric). They are very good spells against anything that isn't immune to them (mostly non-living creatures, but here also some others are immune?).

Energy drain is very definitely also available to wizards and sorcerers! But it's usually not necessary to cast them on normal mobs.

Also, spells that have "no spell resistance" are much better DC wise than other spells, since most bosses and some non-bosses get huge boosts to saves from their spellcraft skill. E.g. the Lich in the ice cave can be disabled by whirlpool, but disintegrate will not work well.

Spell resistance has nothing to do with DCs or saves. Spellcraft contributes nothing to Spell Resistance.

[whatever123]

Spell resistance has nothing to do with DCs or saves. Spellcraft contributes nothing to Spell Resistance.

I see. Then I don't understand why monsters have much higher saves against some spells. Could it be somehow related to persistent area spells vs. "instant" spells?

[White]

Saves vs. Spells do not apply to cloud-type spells.