An Idea For Faction vs Faction

[selhan]

I still think there should be a winner and a loser.
But the winning/losing will be more about how the RP plays out and not so much about winning a game. Im sure some folk get into it for the competition and the game side of it but for me its is about how the contest plays out IC that matters.

So the pirates start attacking a Merchant house and stealing their merchandise. The contest begins. There is diplomacy, the intrigue, any possible dm events, possible pvp plays out, solid RP is performed, etc.. Four month later we look back at the carnage..er..RP and we see that both sides did an amazing job.
Maybe the merchants rise up and quash the pirates - burning Roaring Shore and all its filth to ashes.
Maybe the pirates are unable to be stopped and become pirate kings, eventually overthrowing the dukes of Baldur's Gate....the Pirate King(s) of Baldurs Gate!
Maybe its a tie?
The event is over but neither side really comes out ahead....they will have to continue RPing the dispute on their own. With the precedence already set on the behavior they can continue as such, for their own amusement/enjoyment.

There will likely be a winner and a loser- One team does better in a DM event. One team successfully infiltrates gets intel on the other team. My Dragon Druid/warlock/barbarian slaughters everyone on the field of battle. Maybe one team half asses it in group RP...or didn't submit reports. Maybe one team built up their guild very well and the other lost members due to RL....poop happens. Winners and losers...circle of life...

But the issue Rain addresses is valid. Both bust their asses to win but even though there is a clear winner, the loser deserves more than a kick in the arse.
So I guess aside from a tie, how would you make it so the people who deserves a reward gets one even if they did not win the contest?

HA you in it for the reward!! j/k

In such a thing to me the entire rp would be the reward. Is FAR better that you pc can say .."I was involved in the X War against the enclave , I was the one that did yada yada in the war efforts" INSTEAD of having to say ...

"Oh I use cleans the lands of gnolls , trolls, and wyverns and little blue buggers."

"Oh you use to do that too? Yeah all my skills and training came from it."

It WOULD be nice if DMs gave factions certain rewards or boons or Booty! For accomplishing something in a faction vs faction conflict. Guild assets , etc.

[Rinzler]

A good analogy I can think of is capture the flag.

The best guild conflict I ever experienced was on a nwn1 server called The Three Kingdoms (3kds). The outcomes mirrored that of Victorian/Napoleonic area conflicts in Western Europe. Yes, there would be battles and wars, but the resolutions would be minor territorial gains and/or resources. France would win some obscure piece of land, only for England to later win it back. Then France, then England, then France, and on and on.

3kds was the same thing. Factions would obviously have a home area that could not be lost, but there were areas that were considered neutral and/or fair game, and having ownership of them would provide temporary benefits (but primarily just bragging rights). That way, if Team A is outnumbering Team B, obviously, Team B is probably going to lose. However, eventually, Team B is going to have the numbers to take it back from Team A.

This up-front and transparent system honestly saved the staff a lot of headaches, because they were very clear that if you want to participate in guild conflict, you better understand that you can't hide behind the DM Team if you get your ass kicked. It allowed freedom for people who wanted to have guild vs. guild conflict, and those who didn't like guild conflict or didn't want to participate in it were also protected by standard PvP rules similar to what we have here.

[Rain]

But the issue Rain addresses is valid. Both bust their asses to win but even though there is a clear winner, the loser deserves more than a kick in the arse.
So I guess aside from a tie, how would you make it so the people who deserves a reward gets one even if they did not win the contest?

Easy.

Make it so that losing still nets you something that other players don't have. As I suggested before - making a system where guilds have NPC's they can control is a BIG deal. Do you know how much RP that could naturally bring to the server? If players had to power to move their own NPC's? Hell that's something Darkhold leader #19 would have dreamed of. And I understand the notion of not letting leaders of lore-friendly factions move troops on their own. There is hoops that need to be made do things in certain factions. Understandable. BUT I know many non lore guilds in this server that would relish the freedom of controlling their own NPC's which in of itself is a luxury to be able to do.

Now aside from being a baddass leader moving NPC's to places to entice RP. LOSING should still net you a benefit. This is why I brought up the Outpost system that is already live on the server. If you lose an outpost to another faction... yes it hurts... you lost an outpost and thus lose your maximum amount of controlled NPC's. What I would do is the following:::

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If you are really into consolation prizes make it so that each side gets a boon for participating. Boons can be simple... People like loot right? Yes! But you know what people like more then loot? Customizable loot. The devs already have a similar thing with Heirloom gear from the biography reward system. Now just kick that up a notch where players get participation tokens they can submit for gear upgrades or minor gear enchantments. Make each enchantment nothing crazy but showcase the history behind that piece of gear. It could start off as a mundane item and over years of player participation more and more the enchantments in the weapon turn it into a piece of gear on the same level as the epic gear in the epic shop but now instead of it being a random epic shop weapon it is YOUR weapon YOUR GEAR you forged with YOUR blood, sweat and tears over years of RP, PVP, and PVE participation. Win or lose you get points to add to your customizable gear. Small increases but over time will result in something special that each player can relish and say they -earned- it.

[Tekill]

Just my last thoughts on my/the idea for introducing FvF (faction vs faction) RP into the server.

Blazerules 3 phases suggestion would be perfect for initiating FvF. Any dispute between factions can/should be started this way. Any dispute could be possibly be resolved in the first stages. Imagine a 3 member “evil” religion faction stepping up to a 23 member team good group (or united front of groups). The smaller faction has one smooth talker in its ranks (maybe with high diplomacy/bluff) and because of that was able to progress the interests of that 3 player faction without lifting a finger.
This signifies to me that there is a simple solution here, in making it possible for players to make an impact on the server, even as a minority.

Rinzlers example of making pvp more sporting and more fun by making it a more complicated team event, instead of just one player/group hammering another, is so absolutely totally what this server needs to spice things up.
They can be introduced in and of themselves but they would also go perfectly when added to a FvF contest event. A straight up capture the flag 'game' might be a bit immersion breaking but, we can either make it more OOC, or we can create a clever game that can still be played IC. Basically creating a PvP/FvF match that is IC that simply has the contestants following a set of rules that is similar to a 'game'. A team death match last man standing on a particular map/terrain or the first group to find the hidden item wins the contest could be an example.

IIRC, this server originally started as a medium RP server where the focus was on adventure. From what I remember there was more PvP, FvF and more spontaneous/random DM events in the past. There was also more melo-drama.
What happened was that we traded in the melo-drama for mediocrity. I will speak only for myself here but I do not like playing a hyper politically correct nanny state environment with an aversion to any to any sort of conflict simply to avoid ego's getting bruised.

Against my better judgment (I fought it tooth and nail all the way – without success) the server has evolved to a more hardcore RP server over the last couple years and I think it has really done so in some ways that I think totally suck.
But on the other hand I have really seen a lot of amazing creativity with the RP in recent years.
So I will grudgingly admit I was wrong.

So admitting (maybe for the first time in my life) that I may or may not know everything, I ask for the first and final time: Why are we NOT trying to have best of both worlds?

The recent 14 page “The State of Levelling” thread, really showed that there is a lot of interest in levelling, and game mechanics, overall. Maybe even more interest than than in RP?
Regardless of what the number one primary interest of the player on this server is, there is a significant number of players that want more than just the status quo RP.

You can try and solve this by making the DM team work harder trying to appease all the players interest 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. But in the past it only causes DM burn out.
So I say again, lets not just have the DM's serve up DM events for the benefit of every hair brained idea a player throws at them. Or constantly trying to to find new and imaginative ways to keep most of the people happy most of the time. Let the players create their own damned work and create content for their own damned selves!

Mine and other players ideas still require the DM's or supporting volunteers, moderators, etc. But it lets the players do the heavy lifting. My ultimate point here is that we can find ways do it in ways that are fair for almost everyone (there will always be bruised ego's).

There, now regardless of what I do moving forward. If I suck it up and keep RP'ing or if I quit this game for good, I have at least made an effort to make it what it has the potential to be.

Thanks for reading.