Caster Oriented Divine PrC - Dreadmaster rework?

[AsuraKing]

As many folks may know, I've always wanted there to be more caster oriented classes for clerics/divine classes as opposed to all of the various high BAB PrCs they have. While I searched for a good caster oriented divine PrC, I could never find one that would make any sense in an NWN2 environment as many tended to provide bonuses that would only really work with direct DM oversight. So instead I decided why not try and convert a current class we have that likely no one plays and I'd be shocked if anyone made one from this point forward, that class being Dreadmaster.

As it stands how, Dreadmaster requires, not one, not two, but essentially three feat taxes (leadership, Servant of the Fallen, Skill focus Intimidate), with those taxes combined with the fact that well... Bane is dead this class will likely be gathering dust for the next 20 years until Bane returns. So instead here is my proposal:

Chaplain, Sect Leader, Preacher - Not sure on a name, those are just a few that came to mind.

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Prerequisites
Lore Religion: 8
Sense motive: 6
Turn Undead
Leadership (feat tax, but makes sense)
Access to lvl 3 divine spells (unchanged)

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Class Features
Hit die: 8
Proficiencies: None
Skill points: 4 + Int modifier
Class skills: Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Linguistics, Lore: Arcana, Lore: Geography, Lore: History, Lore: Local, Lore: Nobility and Royalty, Lore: Religion, Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft.
Base attack bonus progression: Low
Saving throws high: Will,Fortitude
low: Reflex

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Progression
1- Extra Turning, Full Spellcasting Progression (Divine), Full Turning Progression
2- Dominating Aura (Evil) OR Aura of Courage (Good/Neutral)
3- Skill focus Lore: Religion
4-
5- Craft Wand
6-
7- Profane Corruption (Evil) OR Sacred Purification (Good/Neutral)
8-
9- Epic skill focus Lore: Religion
10- Summon Cohort (2 uses per day)

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Reskin the cohorts to something along the lines of the following:
Gauth -> Sect Arcanist (generic robed figure)
Helmed Horror -> Templar (generic knight figure)
Displacer Beast -> Not sure on this one, it's multi-attack focused so maybe some kind of monk?
Hellhound -> Hound Dog

While there's some things kept from Dreadmaster, there are some significant changes, one of the major changes would be that this would be a low BAB class to emphasize the fact that this is not a combat cleric as opposed to all of the various high BAB cleric PrCs we currently have. In addition, I bumped the summon cohort to a x2 per day use, the reason for this is that from my own personal experience the cohort has always been fairly weak for being a level 10 capstone, and a second use would make it a bit more useful without needing to directly buff the various options.

Edited 8/29: Removed scribe scroll, bumped up craft wand and profane corruption/sacred purification by 1 lvl.

[Steve]

I like the idea of more caster Clerics.

Currently, one can take Hierophant PrC, which is a powerful boon to Cleric casters. Also, there is Thaumaturge for boosting summons. And, if good, Harper Priest. Dark fire Disciple for non-goods, and though Medium BAB, it’s not a powerhouse.

Oh…and let’s not forget the Mystic Theurge! Anyone actually play that??

But what is important is how Dreadmaster is a PrC now for a dead God, and how can a prayer based Cleric receive their spells from a dead God??

[Anrilor]

I actually can appreciate this PrC to open up to the whole spectrum of clerics, it would also be pretty decent at opening up a path for heirophant, redoubling into the caster cleric role. Needing Turn undead is nice because that keeps it locked to cleric/paladins, low bab keeps it caster cleric only.

That being said, not sure how I feel of giving both Craft wand and Scribe scroll... sort of feels too much, I get that it has a feat tax of one feat, so maybe it gets scribe or craft wand, and set it up that you get to choose at level 5? Otherwise I see this PrC being used and abused for crafting alts.

My two cents anyways. Overall, I support this, despite not being good for Katli as a Warpriest, but it would have been amazing for Alyssia as a cleric/Herio/Thaum if I had not already retired her.

[AsuraKing]

I actually can appreciate this PrC to open up to the whole spectrum of clerics, it would also be pretty decent at opening up a path for heirophant, redoubling into the caster cleric role. Needing Turn undead is nice because that keeps it locked to cleric/paladins, low bab keeps it caster cleric only.

That being said, not sure how I feel of giving both Craft wand and Scribe scroll... sort of feels too much, I get that it has a feat tax of one feat, so maybe it gets scribe or craft wand, and set it up that you get to choose at level 5? Otherwise I see this PrC being used and abused for crafting alts.

My two cents anyways. Overall, I support this, despite not being good for Katli as a Warpriest, but it would have been amazing for Alyssia as a cleric/Herio/Thaum if I had not already retired her.

That's fair, perhaps bumping craft wand to 5 and Profane Corruption/Sacred Purification to 7 may be better. Mainly I put scribe scroll in there cause I didnt want there to be too many 'dead' levels back to back and thought it kinda fit, but can absolutely see it being a bit OP.

[Kitunenotsume]

I like the look of this class, and can definitely appreciate the niche it goes for.

I also agree that 2 crafting feats is a bit much - A choice would be ideal, as Scribe Scroll is surprisingly accessible as a free feat (for anyone with Wizard/MT or Rune Domains). Craft Wonderous might also be an option - but that is not a usable feat on this server, so it's entirely flavor.

Another alternative could be something like Extra Turning II, which provides additional uses of a core ability, but 3 extra casts usually isn't as numerically tremendous, while still providing additional support capability.

All of which would be inferior to a mechanical implementation of Leadership (either as a summon, or as a ally-support system) - and thus provide reason for Enhanced Leadership as provided by the foundational class.

[Deathgrowl]

As someone who has played a caster oriented cleric (in my case it was monk4/cleric11/harper priest5/hierophant10), I have to remark that I'm not really seeing much ... "caster orientation"... here...? It seems turn focused and maybe a bit about cohorts?

[Ashenie]

Hello there,

Thanks for the suggestion, it's interesting.

I would personally prefer specialty priests to remain specialty priests of a specific deity. Like Silverstar for Selune, or Morninglords for Lathander.

The addition of such custom designed prestige class seems interesting to me, as long as it doesn't impact the lore behind Bane's specific specialty priests and their unique powers. So if it had to be implemented, I would suggest that it's an other option on top of existing presige classes, and not instead of dreadmaster.

As a side note, not only dreadmaster, but any cleric of Bane wishing to cast magic have to go for servant of the fallen feat so it's not exactly a feat required for this specific prestige class, but for Banite divine servants overall - even if this precision can feel a bit minor.

I hope it helps,

Cheers,

Ashenie

[Kitunenotsume]

I would personally prefer specialty priests to remain specialty priests of a specific deity. Like Silverstar for Selune, or Morninglords for Lathander.

While I understand the sentiment, specialty priests, like specialty-spells, necessitate producing content that is inaccessible to most character options, even moreso than the normal restrictions on such mechanics.

We have 160+ deities, and (from my count) 7-ish specialty deity-restricted classes. While it is perfectly reasonable to do so for deities and religions that are active and relevant to the region and ongoing plot, this is often not the case and in some circumstances drops a deity out of 'circulation' due to death, exile, or other inaccessibility.

As someone who plays a very foreign set of deities I am entirely to blame for being unable to use any of these PRCs or the numerous fancy spells that fill my list, but more options that advance the class would service the ~140 deities that don't have such favor.

[AsuraKing]

As someone who has played a caster oriented cleric (in my case it was monk4/cleric11/harper priest5/hierophant10), I have to remark that I'm not really seeing much ... "caster orientation"... here...? It seems turn focused and maybe a bit about cohorts?

I suppose "caster" may not be the most fitting term, more so something along the lines of a non-buff/bash cleric PrC, the idea being to develop something that provides a different path than the several different flavors of Warpriest we currently have.

If we had something like the Reach Spell metamagic, I'd love to include that in here as something they'd get (allowing them to cast their inflicts/cures at range) but I decided it was better to try and work with what we already have. As I was looking through the Complete Divine book for ideas, the thought of an extra domain did come to mind, but having spoken with devs elsewhere on the same topic Ive been informed that domains are very much hard coded to a limit of 2. As much as I personally would love a non-alignment locked class with an infinite spell cast like the Harper Priest or Solar Channeler, I figured that may be a bit too much.

And speaking of the Complete Divine book, there are several 'caster' oriented divine PrCs, however nearly all of them are more suited towards a PnP environment where a DM is directly with you (Church Inquisitor for example having lots of things dealing with discovering charms/forcing people to speak the truth) or they're all about granting extra domains (two extra in the case of the Contemplative PrC) which as stated above, I've been informed is not really possible with NWN2.

I would personally prefer specialty priests to remain specialty priests of a specific deity. Like Silverstar for Selune, or Morninglords for Lathander.

The addition of such custom designed prestige class seems interesting to me, as long as it doesn't impact the lore behind Bane's specific specialty priests and their unique powers. So if it had to be implemented, I would suggest that it's an other option on top of existing presige classes, and not instead of dreadmaster.

While normally I'd agree in keeping specialty priests to their intended gods, that really doesnt make much sense anymore for a god that is dead. Also on top of that, converting one specialty priest to a different avenue of RP is already something we have, that being Morninglord of Lathander which is really Doomguide (Kelemvor) with the only difference is Lathander is swapped out for Kelemvor in the ability names.

Dreadmaster was niche even back when Bane was alive with nearly no one ever taking it, there were certainly more clerics of bane without it than with. In addition now that Bane is dead and you need not only the feat taxes the class already demands but also a third in the form of Servant of the Fallen to even make a cleric of Bane, I'd be shocked if the class is ever taken again. In my opinion it'd be much better to convert it into something fresh that more people can make use of than just have it waste away in the background.

Rather than building an entire class from scratch, I figured why not simply make things easier and fix something that's 'broken' that we already have.

[Deathgrowl]

As much as I personally would love a non-alignment locked class with an infinite spell cast like the Harper Priest or Solar Channeler, I figured that may be a bit too much.

I had Mystra's Spell Stash, but didn't use it all that much to be honest. I don't think Solar Channeler actually has any infinite spell? Either, I am never a fan of infinite magic to begin with, so I'd avoid that entirely.

Right now the only real "caster oriented" PRC we have for cleric is Hierophant (and shadow adept for sharrans, I suppose). You can also technically progress Frost Mage with cleric levels, but it does require level 3 arcane spells to unlock (so you'd have to go wizard5/cleric5/frost magus10/hierophant10 or something of that sort). It would be nice to find some others, but source material has thus far turned up little of interest, and I'm not entirely sure what it would even look like if not just a copy of something like Arcane Scholar. When it comes to spellcasting, there are generally two ways to go in order to enhance it: Metamagics and DCs.

[Kitunenotsume]

While not quite a PRC, a class-kit/variant like Cloistered Cleric might also be an option to fill the niche. It does use an additional domain, which we can't implement on NWN2 so isn't ideal, but alternative mechanics could be implemented.