Magic Missile Staff for Halfling/Gnome

[Green Monster]

The magic missile staff at Sorcerous Sundries is a large weapon completely unusable by halflings and gnomes unless they get the Monkey Grip feat. Seems more than a little unfair to force small mages to get a feat they don't otherwise need. Can't we have a medium-sized magic staff version? in Gullykin, maybe? Make it only useable by halflings and gnomes if you want. I think someone at some point mentioned they didn't want medium size characters dual-wielding staves but what would be the point in dual-wielding this particular one? If you somehow had 20 of them equipped you could still only use one per turn and still only have one attuned. I do know of at least one player who's left who had been complaining about this and other ways that small characters get screwed. Whether they left because of it I don't know.

[Rhifox]

I can't guarantee that the current unlimited staffs will remain. They weren't really intended to be left in with the addition of staff attunement, given their clear power.

That being said, short staffs were left off of the original staff update but may be added at a later date. Given that they were never properly integrated into the game as true weapons, there is a lot more work involved in making them (as I'd want to make them a fully supported weapon type), but it's on the list of things I'd like to get to.

[Green Monster]

I can't guarantee that the current unlimited staffs will remain. They weren't really intended to be left in with the addition of staff attunement, given their clear power.

That being said, short staffs were left off of the original staff update but may be added at a later date. Given that they were never properly integrated into the game as true weapons, there is a lot more work involved in making them (as I'd want to make them a fully supported weapon type), but it's on the list of things I'd like to get to.

I think that the staves are a good thing, even with attunement, because staying power is a real problem for dedicated casters who stink at physical combat. Especially wizards, who get fewer spells than sorcs. In my experience, the arcanist is often called upon to buff the party in addition to themselves and in addition to casting offense spells, so they often run out of spells (unless they selfishly refuse to buff the party). The attuned magic missile staves address that perfectly and I don't think it's OP with attunement. Remember, magic missile caps at 9 even if your CL is 30, and the staff is once per round, so 9d4 damage once per round is still nowhere near as good as the average bastard sword wielding fighter with 6 attacks, and obviously not as good as higher lvl spells, but it sure is a LOT better than a wizard with rubbish BAB trying to hit with a crossbow because they're out of spells. Also, it's just more "wizardly". People who make the typical sorc/ Eldritch Knight/ Dragonslayer build to buff themselves then melee are everywhere, I think we should do more to encourage casters to be casters. Pointy hat and mahmgic staff and all.

9d4 averages to 22.5 dmg, and any tank worth their salt can do that much with just one of their attacks, so no, I don't think the MM staves are OP. And I do think that medium sized ones should be made available ASAP even before the medium sized ones are given weapon focus and specialization, etc, because allowing an injustice to remain because the solution is imperfect is like not installing wheelchair accessible ramps in a building because you cant afford to make them pretty. Please, just give us the magic missile staves in the medium sized version alongside the existing ones and worry about letting us use that staff with no EB or combat bonuses to bonk people later.

[DaloLorn]

so they often run out of spells (unless they selfishly refuse to buff the party).

Even if, in my experience as a sorcerer with barely any buff spells. But yeah, our content doesn't really give them many opportunities to flex most of their non-buff spells... and of their damaging spells, only AoEs and save-or-dies are in any way capable of competing with martials (but not warlocks, no sir). If properly used, which goes back to "not many opportunities". I mostly run out because I'm trying to do something despite that inadequacy, not because I need to do something.

[Ghost]

Just wanted to say each missile is 1d4+1, so the total is 9d4+9 and thus averages 31,5. So it is a bit higher than suggested.

[DaloLorn]

Just wanted to say each missile is 1d4+1, so the total is 9d4+9 and thus averages 31,5. So it is a bit higher than suggested.

Which an archer will match in... I'll be pessimistic and say 3 arrows. Melee builds, probably 2 swings if their offense is on the weak end. Possibly less than 1 swing if they're really offensively-geared, to speak nothing of warlocks.

[Kitunenotsume]

An alternative to the Magic Missile Staff could be to pick up Invisible Needles Reserve Feat.

Although I would honestly be a proponent for making the reserve-feats available on selected staves once they are attuned, since beyond the flexibility that such a modularity would provide, the power would still be intrinsically linked to actual caster capability and capped at 9d6 damage.

[Ghost]

That's true. And none of those will ever do a 100 damage in a colossal AoE. Or just kill everything outright in a colossal AoE.

[Green Monster]

That's true. And none of those will ever do a 100 damage in a colossal AoE. Or just kill everything outright in a colossal AoE.

But a lot of the good AoEs have a chance of hurting your own party, which when everyone is running full tilt because they need to finish the dungeon before the buffs fade and the dungeon is indoors in tight spaces, it's actually a pretty good chance. So yeah, a caster CAN do a huge amount of damage with AoEs but the opportunity to do so on a full PVP server is not as often as I would like. There are reasons why the most popular arcane build is a spellsword sorc with 10 lvls each of EK and Dragonslayer: Casters run out of spells and don't have as many opportunities to really flex the magic as we'd like.

Also, the reason I brought up the dmg of magic missile in compared with a martial build is NOT to suggest that spells can't do more damage, but merely to point out that the magic missile staff, specifically, is not as overpowered as Rhifox suggested with attunement. It's actually far, far less powerful than any actual lvl 2+ spell a caster can cast and far less powerful than a tank whacking away with an axe, but still a better and more "wizardly" way for arcanists to last the whole mission than us using our crap BAB with a crossbow.

[DaloLorn]

Warlocks will, actually, and considerably more than 100 (though still not instant death). However, there's an element of this you didn't touch on: The near-absence of scenarios where "in a colossal AoE" is meaningfully greater than "the one target the AoE is centered on". Another element is the highly limited set of scenarios where the spells that cause instant death can be cast without burning half a dozen feats on cranking up your caster stat (or taking villainous PRCs like Shadow Adept and Red Wizard, or preferably doing both of those things on the same character).

[Ghost]

However, there's an element of this you didn't touch on: The near-absence of scenarios where "in a colossal AoE" is meaningfully greater than "the one target the AoE is centered on".

Also true! What is the diagnosis, then?

[Green Monster]

The comparisons are a little off my original intent but valid discussion. Still, I think I will recap my point as succinctly as possible;

Magic Missile staves are not over-powered. At CL 30 they are comparable in damage to a single shot from a heavily enchanted heavy crossbow with good ammo, but more financially sustainable and better mechanically for a low BAB caster and, more importantly, far more in keeping with role-playing a traditional wizard.

Most non-pact mages do not have enough spells to last a whole mission. Even sorcerers, but especially not wizards and even more especially if they're kind souls with a team attitude who buff the party. The magic missile staff perfectly and in-character-ly provides a way for the arcanist (who doesn't wield a sword or turn into a giant) to remain useful to the party for the entire mission.

Therefore, the magic missile staves should not only remain, but be made available in the medium size magic staff variety for halflings and gnomes ASAP, before all the work to make them able to be used as melee weapons is done. As I said, an imperfect solution now that can be upgraded in the future is way, way better than waiting for it to be "perfect". It's not like the feat changes, etc, can't be done after the medium-sized magic missile staves are put in.**


** On a side note, I don't personally care if the magic staves are given weapon focus/specialization/imp crit, etc feats. Pretty sure the original design team saw them more as big wands than as actual weapons, hence the lack of all those feats. A quarterstaff is a thick oak pole reinforced with steel bands. A magic staff is made of silly stuff like rowan tree wood and unicorn hair.

[Kitunenotsume]

Most non-pact mages do not have enough spells to last a whole mission. Even sorcerers, but especially not wizards and even more especially if they're kind souls with a team attitude who buff the party. The magic missile staff perfectly and in-character-ly provides a way for the arcanist (who doesn't wield a sword or turn into a giant) to remain useful to the party for the entire mission.

As noted above, Reserve-Feats are an option here. They are feat-spells that have scaling effect based on your highest level trigger-spell prepared, allowing one high-level spell slot to be converted into infinite casts of a 9d4 or 9d6 damage effect every round. As feats, they are completely independent (and thus in supplement to) your choice of available weapons.

[Green Monster]

Most non-pact mages do not have enough spells to last a whole mission. Even sorcerers, but especially not wizards and even more especially if they're kind souls with a team attitude who buff the party. The magic missile staff perfectly and in-character-ly provides a way for the arcanist (who doesn't wield a sword or turn into a giant) to remain useful to the party for the entire mission.

As noted above, Reserve-Feats are an option here. They are feat-spells that have scaling effect based on your highest level trigger-spell prepared, allowing one high-level spell slot to be converted into infinite casts of a 9d4 or 9d6 damage effect every round. As feats, they are completely independent (and thus in supplement to) your choice of available weapons.

It's a good idea, except that the number of feats available to a character is limited. The number of weapons is only limited by funds and storage. Unless you're talking about a free feat given to sorcs and wizards. But it would still require more work than just giving us the existing magic missile staves in the medium size version.

[DaloLorn]

However, there's an element of this you didn't touch on: The near-absence of scenarios where "in a colossal AoE" is meaningfully greater than "the one target the AoE is centered on".

Also true! What is the diagnosis, then?

A large helping of "broken PvE design", with a dose of "broken class balance". One we can fairly easily adjust; the other could take years to fix at our current rate.