Reducing the amount of restrictions on grind XP

[Valleriani]

Right now XP on grinding has a lot of restrictions in groups. You have to be within range of the enemy, less than 6, and the person leveling with you can't be too high of a level. Our player count is lower and I don't think we need to worry about such heavier restrictions. Plus it will help parties stick together instead of splitting with them, which is good, personally.

Remove the restriction that the party has to be within limits of EACH other for level. Still keep it so that the party should be 6 or less, and still keep it so that the individual killing needs to be within limits of the monster itself.

I don't think we should be fearing a level 30 coming into a party just because they can kill faster anymore. It's not a big deal, and it will help keep parties together instead of splitting them. The amount of times people leave because they are level 21-22 going up the mountains is high for me for example. But I can see it too like players 'hiring' a mercenary, things like that. But if a group fo RPing with 4 level 20s and one level 30. And then they decide to grind for an hour, the level 30 often doesn't tag along, they'll leave. Let them be together, EVEN if there not too much RP during grind, they will stay together during, and then continue to RP. Less people left out, more people RPing together.

Sexy You: 'But V what if a level 30 goes into a level 10 party and kills level 10 monsters!?'
V: 'Who gives a shit'.

It's no different than a level 18, who could go with them, killing in one hit as well, and XP working just fine. And even still, does it really matter? At lower levels anyways you're getting more XP RPing now, and all we're doing is splitting up people from being together.

The restriction should be simply where they level at based on the monster level (not too high not too low of the monster level vs your level), and the party limit. So each kill will only be affected by the monster level to the player level getting the XP, and the party limit. And let level 30s' help, because it is not as important anymore.

I'm sure someone will have better examples or reasons for it. I'm terrible at explaining things. But the simple thing is you'll get more people staying together, feeling included. Leveling is already hell even without this, and we don't have enough players to warrant split up. The restrictions still in place will be enough too.

Thanks <3

[Snarfy]

Remove the restriction that the party has to be within limits of EACH other for level. Still keep it so that the party should be 6 or less, and still keep it so that the individual killing needs to be within limits of the monster itself.

I'm going to totally agree on this one. If level 30's wants to hang out with level 10's and go to the Cloakwood, and the former only get 1 - 5 xp(or whatever it might be) per kill, the level 10's shouldn't have to suffer for it. While you're at it, remove the loot script that only gives gold in chests for characters in zones that are below their level range. These are rather OOC implementations that do nothing but negatively impact the fundamental joys of simple "adventuring", as these kind of artificial barriers are just bad for immersion. Given the player counts over the last year or more, seeing more groups out in DUNGEONS[and Dragons ], irregardless of any level split, can only be a good thing.

[Eien]

I have tried in my time on staff to reverse the trend and increase xp if you go around in a group instead of lowering it. To give even more incentives to people, for grouping up.

I don't remember exactly why that part didn't go ahead (and the RP ticks did), perhaps there was a concern over increasing levelling speed too much.

I also did propose for the lvl gap situation to be softened in one way or another. We are a RP server, if people lvl up too fast it shouldn't really be that much of an issue, I think, as long as they interact with eachother.

But overall, I do agree with the sentiment of this suggestion.

[Steve]

The Server should be better balanced so that there really is not incentive to "grind out levels" for a Player, as in: the road to 30 is just as important and a great experience, maybe even more so, than actually reaching Level 30.

Right now, a Level 30 can join a Group in an Area, and be a part of the role-play, just don't OOC join the Party, and the XP issue shouldn't be...an issue.

And, it is absolutely important that a recipient of XP in a group need be within a close limit to the kill. Else, you can just have a Player park their toon in the corner with Invisibility on, do literally nothing, and super-Level based on other PC's doing all the "work."

Right now, RPing together—as in, Chat RP—will level ANY build/Character faster than grinding. Especially the higher Level the PC...and there is no group size limit, no time limit, no Level limit. Yes, there is role-play in adventuring and fighting mobs, but not grinding. Grinding is OOC, and an OOC decision. On a supposed RP Server, shouldn't grinding be given the most limitations?

[selhan]

Im more on the lines of...

1. If an Epic PC tags along with a lowbie PC...let it be the Low level PC that still gets the same XP, while the Epic level gets a nurf , not the other way around.

Reason: I totally agree with 99% of the suggestions, but at the same time,we dont want.... example - a level 25 cheesing their way towards 30 by camping low level dungeons because its less dangerous for them or they use less consumables / UMD.

2. The Loot Chest by Tier be removed.

Reason: That implementation alone is what really stopped the interest for a high level to tag along with low levels in a dungeon unless its the high level that is that damn bored and being inconsiderate of the low levels XP nurf. Lets face it, its a RARE thing a high level is even being asked to help. Because for those that are Xp hunting, knows their xp will get nurfed.

3. Maybe a new system if possible, where the Epic level "Only gets good Loot in a low level chest IF they are in squad with a low level".

Reason: That might push for more rp, and avoid high level abuse on low level dungeons.

Additional Notes:

This all requires Code work, which likely be a pain in the butt to work with for the programmers, since this old game has been very unfriendly to them. But I think its a far simple solution than a completely overhaul. I know Dalo was working on something in a massive scale but thats seems very overwhelming and a whole lotta rework. And now that hes taking a break, the future of that is in the air.

Possible other Suggestions without being a smart Nerd:

What Area Builders could probably do is simply add a new area to these low level dungeons, that only allow Epic levels to handle like a bonus Epic Boss Room with a Loot chest for their level range, and designing the new area in a way where the low levels could safely observe from maybe even provide assistance like tackle low CR rated adds? Just something I heard Ghost mention. Im just tossing ideals, maybe someone else could brainstorm something thats finer tune.

[Ewe]

Removing item level restrictions and allowing high-level players to provide full, long-lasting buffs significantly increases a low-level player’s Effective Character Level (ECL). This can trivialize content, making the challenge and progression designed for lower levels less meaningful. It’s inconsistent to disallow power-leveling in one scenario while accepting it in another.

At pre-epic levels, the game can be easily exploited. For example, a level 1 wizard can purchase planar binding scrolls with starting gold and cast them to trivialize encounters. Additionally, equipment like Darius gear can exponentially increase a level 1 character’s hit points. Similarly, a level 1 fighter can acquire throwing axes that one-shot enemies from a distance, undermining the intended difficulty.

The core issue is the game’s balance and the player experience. The focus should be on fostering cooperative play and inclusivity rather than creating barriers based on character level. Being excluded from a group after investing time in role-playing because of level discrepancies is frustrating and detracts from the communal aspect of the game.

[JustAnotherGuy]

When we discuss things and throw in player counts to back them up, we have to remember that BGTSCC is consistently the highest player count PW for NWN2 according to NWNList Scry (As of this writing, we have 18, Sigil has 13, and Haven has 9). So it is evident that we are doing something right. For sure we have a lower playerbase than we used to, but that's across the entire NWN2, and we are on top.

I don't disagree that some loosening of the restrictions might be good. However, I vehemently disagree that the "grind to 30" is bad. It's easier now than it's ever been, and right now we have more events that accommodate lower level players than we've had in my times on the server, so there's no reason to rush to level 30.

I have played on servers where they can do exactly what you're speaking of. On Sigil, we would level to 30 within a day. On Silversun, I leveled a group of players to 30 in less than four hours. During my short stint on Haven, I leveled myself to 30 in about 3 days.

We are an RP server. The focus should be on RP. Allowing players to level too fast takes away so much RP. Firstly, it incentivizes constant grinding until you reach level 30, taking away pretty much all RP until someone maxes level (and this isn't crying wolf. That's essentially life on Sigil and Silversun. Join, grind to 30, and only then do you RP.) It also makes a brand new adventurer powerful without any "real world" experience. Being an RP server means that characters fresh to the server are also supposed to be fresh to adventuring.

TLDR; perhaps a look could be taken at the current restrictions. However, we don't want to go overboard, as that kills RP, which kills the server.

[Rinzler]

the road to 30 is just as important and a great experience, maybe even more so, than actually reaching Level 30.

I respect your opinion, and I know it’s shared by others, but by definition it’s subjective. Some people have the opposite opinion, which is also okay.

If you loosen XP restrictions, people who share opinion #1 are still in control at the pace that they gain XP while also being more lenient on people who share opinion #2.

[Steve]

the road to 30 is just as important and a great experience, maybe even more so, than actually reaching Level 30.

I respect your opinion, and I know it’s shared by others, but by definition it’s subjective. Some people have the opposite opinion, which is also okay.

If you loosen XP restrictions, people who share opinion #1 are still in control at the pace that they gain XP while also being more lenient on people who share opinion #2.

Absolutely, it’s just an opinion. However, related to BGTSCC, the Server has far more content designed for that “road to 30" than for Level 30.

So what’s the point of it all if it’s breezed by through power leveling via less limits on Rate?

Like I said, the Chat RP XP system got a major shot in the arm and is currently a objectively faster means to Level Up than grinding mobs in the Epic Levels of progression.

And what is more role-play, verbal interactions between PCs (and of any Level, together) or circle kill-grind machine runs with every 5 minutes a macro click for an emote?

I would personally get behind a less limiting XP gain system when grouped containing PCs of great Level difference IF: a) the mobs would auto buff spawn up to the CR of the highest Level PC in the group to balance the challenge; b) XP penalty was reintroduced at “death” so that there is some consequence to trying to game the content, and then getting your arse handed to you.

At this point, why not just give Players the option at creation to either start at Level 1 or Level 30? GET RID OF THE GRIND ENTIRELY! Problem solved.

[Zanniej]

I'm personally all for reducing restrictions. I think it should be possible to create a challenge if you want, but to not be forced to have a challenge.

So what if you want to grind with the lowbies as a level 30? The majority of players on this server is nearly always level 30, and those that aren't are often on their way there. (I've been watching the scry for the times I'm online. Nearly all the time about 75% of players is level 30, not counting (or making assumptions about) those that hide their level)

I think we should just give people options. If your idea of a fun time is adventuring (not circle grinding) with people, then the XP gain is irrelevant. Join the party, join the fun.
If your idea of a fun time is circle grinding, then that's fine too.

If you enjoy the road to 30, and would like that to be a challenge, then find a reason to bar those level 30s from your party But then that should also definitely be an option.

Thing is, while I definitely understand that some people would prefer to keep it a challenge, some people would rather it isn't. And both should be fine, and both should be possible. Variety is the spice of life.

[Steve]

Thing is, while I definitely understand that some people would prefer to keep it a challenge, some people would rather it isn't. And both should be fine, and both should be possible. Variety is the spice of life.

That’s what is here on BGTSCC right now without any changes needed to be made.

[Riddance]

I have a wild idea - option to toggle percentage of XP that PCs get

For those who don't get it - I noticed in feat list a toggle to turn off getting XP. My idea is basically expand it's ability/add new one to let people choose if they want to get full XP from RP and mobs or 10/25/50/75/90/etc % of it. That way people will be able to adjust the speed they level up whenever they want it to be a challenge or to speed it up to not fall behind their group

Besides, from my experience, pre-20 and post-21 feels different. It took me, like, 4 months to get to level 21, IIRC and more than year - to level 30. But that might me just my problem with engagment in plots. Especially since the last update of RP XP and changing death penalties from taking away XP to debuff will speed up the rate of leveling up anyway

[Louvaine]

All for reducing restrictions. Let level 1s be boosted by 30s. Who gives a #2. We already use items and buffs to speed up leveling.

[Snarfy]

Besides, from my experience, pre-20 and post-21 feels different. It took me, like, 4 months to get to level 21, IIRC and more than year - to level 30. But that might me just my problem with engagment in plots. Especially since the last update of RP XP and changing death penalties from taking away XP to debuff will speed up the rate of leveling up anyway.

4 months to get to 21, even without plots, sounds like a long time to me. Am I'm guessing correctly that you did minimum quests? Pre-update to BG city those were an easy 10,000 to 12,000xp weekly(for 2.5 hours of play time), but became more of a slog that is likely now only offset by a combination of plot engagement, heavy RP XP, and the removal of XP upon death. All the more reason for...

All for reducing restrictions. Let level 1s be boosted by 30s. Who gives a #2. We already use items and buffs to speed up leveling.

[Ghost]

Fresh character observations, made before the RP XP increase.

Personally I would rather make more incentives to RP than to grind. I don't want to disable grinding, but I do think the focus on encouragement should be entirely on RP. You can say allowing groups helps that, but please lets not lie to ourselves and say that there's going to be much RP in the Xvart circle grind, whether there is a 30 there or not.

The increase in RP XP that Honk/Eien got through was a good move, and should improve the XP gain for large level span groups if they are in fact RPing when out doing dungeons. Beyond that, I'd suggest looking for other ways of encouraging XP gain by actual RP - and happily also specifically targetted at large level differences. Don't know how right now, or I'd suggest it myself, but further enabling what effectively amounts to OOC circle grinding isn't it.