Reducing the amount of restrictions on grind XP

[DaloLorn]

So let's take a third option!

Implement one or more of the restriction-loosening changes described in this thread. Make it easier for newbies to find adventuring companions.

But also add an aggressive diminishing-returns scheme to make no-lifing combat XP a losing proposition, in that you lose your sanity (as you already do today) for far lesser gains than before.

[BloodRiot]

im jsut bored enough that i would liek toi share a possible solution to this connundrum that doesn't deny partying up, enables RP, and doesn't allow power plowing of newbies through late game content.

"Mentoring"

high level player becomes "mentor" to a selected a "ward". While in party, in the same area, the mentor is brought down to the ward0s level. Maybe through debuffs like level drain that can't be dispelled or something. The important thing is that the mentor is perhaps allowed to keep a decent size of HP as what we are doing is letting the mentor hold back it's skills and abilities to the level of it's ward. but not be in actual peril there (though the ward still is). In case of emergency, the mentor can drop mentor mode to regain control of a situation gone awry, but the benefits of mentor mode are then lost, such as the ward receiving full xp penalty as it is now when mentoring is dropped.

Speaking of XP, the mentor and ward both gain xp as if the mentor is at same level as the ward.

wards should probably be more than 1 possible, but somehow limited by some character ability, score or skill.

The above, if possible to make would ensure parties are not discouraged from forming based on disparate levels. It ensures higher levels are brought down to lower levels and not the other way around making low level experience and content still relevant. Makes mentor rp possible in a way that doesn't penalize xp gains and progression.

I haven't through out how feasible this is, ill leave it up to those that are still on staff to think about it if they find the base idea worthwhile.

enjoy

[Zanniej]

If you feel it does, however, then I'd like to hear how. But I still feel the pros outweigh the cons.

Giving a grouped up Party a mechanical advantage during The Grind, both speeds up and makes it easier to grind. That's not a "feeling," that's a fact.

Grinding XP just isn't immersion breaking, it is very much OOC behavior. How much OOC behavior is okay? I mean, look at the title of this thread!

Shouldn't the emphasize be put on giving disparate Level PCs IC reason to group up, not OOC reasons?

If this thread was of the topic "Suggestion for how can disparate Level PCs can better go adventure together for role-play experience", it would be much more appropriate discussion for a Role-play Server, don't you think Zan?

I was writing a whole response here, but I'll put that in a PM, as that has no place here.

The important part is that I am not against addressing the grind. I am all for putting emphasis on giving IC reasons to group up.

I just feel that the level cap has very little impact on grind behaviour. As such, I'd propose lifting that specific restriction.
Aside from that, I am all for amazing ideas to incentivize (group) RP more, and dissuade grinding.

So I'll say once more, unless there is a very specific reason not to, I'd like to separate the group level cap, and grinding in general, and address them separately.

[MrSmith]

So let's take a third option!

How about a 4th option.

If the intent is promote greater inclusion... Then remove any and all penalties for any characters, regardless of level, adventuring in a party.

If the intent is promote RP and discourage grinding... Then significantly lower the spawn rate in any dungeon if level disparity exists. This will increase the opportunity to RP between melee, while removing the opportunities to exploit the level disparity in favor of higher level toons speed killing.

Run the 4th option for 30 days. Assess and readdress, if necessary.

Cheers!
MrSmith

[Zanniej]

So let's take a third option!

How about a 4th option.

If the intent is promote greater inclusion... Then remove any and all penalties for any characters, regardless of level, adventuring in a party.

If the intent is promote RP and discourage grinding... Then significantly lower the spawn rate in any dungeon if level disparity exists. This will increase the opportunity to RP between melee, while removing the opportunities to exploit the level disparity in favor of higher level toons speed killing.

Run the 4th option for 30 days. Assess and readdress, if necessary.

Cheers!
MrSmith

I actually think this is a very good solution.

[Louvaine]

I like this a lot. Less monsters, less restrictions. You'd probably want to rank up difficulty of encounters or reduce loot of chests.

[Snarfy]

So let's take a third option!

How about a 4th option.

I like both of these, especially the latter.

Anything that is a compromise between the current implementation and any of the suggestions in this thread sounds good to me.

[selhan]

Just from my experience on the server from before and after the change..

Before Loot Tier restrictions to levels:
"Hey can I hire you to come along with an adventure? You can keep your share of the loot"

"More coins is always a good thing, just make sure you do what I say if you wish to make it out alive"

*Adventuring party goes out , level range amongst the group varied from Epics to Newbies*



After Loot Tier restrictions to levels:
"Hey, care to join us? We are going to venture in the Hilltop Ruins"

*Sends ooc tell kindly tries to reject the invite since it gave no motivating incentive* "Nty besides, I will kill your xp and epics dont get anything from the chests. We can go to epic areas, you will get a chance a good loot, but its going to be a very dangerous run."

*Replies IC* "I cant be bothered with plundering"

Im sure my words were not exact. But Im sure its very similar or in the lines of it. I will say for the sake of reminding..dont stop grinders from grinding, they do make up some of the population on the server however small it is. But at the same time, we dont want to give Rpers of all levels, some incentive / motivation to venture in these lower level dungeons.

[Nilden]

While I do highly enjoy some of the things on this server like DM events and RP and the players and staff are great the leveling experience is abysmal.

I think you could double or even triple the xp make the cap 150 triple combat xp, triple RP xp. I was always baffled by the amount of grind on an RP server. Why not focus on lvl 30 content and make it faster for everyone to get there. It would speed it up for making other characters. Most of the player base is already 30 anyway. The grind and restrictions do nothing but add tedium and make campfire RP more attractive than actually grouping up and going on an adventure. That or people just leave because of the grind. It's painfully slow, even more so if your not playing a killing machine build, can't find anyone your level to group with or play one of the races with an xp penalty.

I've left for months at a time due to the abysmal leveling experience.

[Steve]

How about a 4th option.

If the intent is promote greater inclusion... Then remove any and all penalties for any characters, regardless of level, adventuring in a party.

If the intent is promote RP and discourage grinding... Then significantly lower the spawn rate in any dungeon if level disparity exists. This will increase the opportunity to RP between melee, while removing the opportunities to exploit the level disparity in favor of higher level toons speed killing.

I also think this is an interesting solution to reduce level-disparate-rofflestomp xp grinding and promote RP.

Maybe you have a solution to an issue that has come to my mind, after some days of returning to this option (if it even can be a coded option). The scenario is:

A Lvl 30 character and 3 Lvl 8 characters go to the Wood of Sharp Teeth. With their level disparity, the mob spawns are severely reduced, but the group is RPing in a part of the map. Then, another group arrives in the same map, a set of 3 Level 10s, who want to slay some (still) CR appropriate mobs, and gain some experience (okay, okay...grinding out some easy XP). However...the Area has adjusted the mob spawn down, based on the first group, and thus there really is no "normal" mob spawn to be had.

In this scenario, which group has the "greater right" to stay in the CR-specific Area? The fist group, under a "first come, first server Rule?" Or the more CR appropriate group, which is the second group? Because one-or-the-other groups now would dictate the mechanical experience of the Area.

Considering the general low population of the Server currently and the many low and mid- CR Areas BGTSCC currently has, this is likely a infrequent "problem." But it relates to an earlier issue BGTSCC experienced when it had more Areas using the CR Scaling Mechanic, where higher level toons would enter an Area with a normal CR, and thus it would adjust the mobs into a higher CR, then a lower Level PC(s) would come through, and get murderated by said "suped up" mobs. And then Players would get kinda upset.

As far as I can tell, there is no mechanic in place to bar lowbies from grouping up with highbies. The only mechanical "penalization" going on is that such disparate Level grouping causes XP gained from "grinding" mobs to reduce to a non-profitable Level. Though, to balance it, Chat XP still "pays out" at a very good and consistent rate.

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I just want to say something else: I'm not anti-grinding, as I also do sometimes kill mobs in a grinding fashion in order to achieve a Level. But I am of the school of thought to not promote it, nor say it is a okay/fair thing to have on a Role-play server. I do wish there were more equally profitable means besides lootz/grindz activity on BGTSCC, and with the Chat XP increase, something is now slightly better than such.

But essentially, my words against grinding or making grinding easier is in order to uphold a greater attention to improving GAINS via role-play investment. Grinding is an OOC thought and act. I agree, it has it's value and achieves a goal. But I'm personally unconvinced that goal is an IC goal, but absolutely an OOC goal. As grinding is permitted on BTGSCC, except for AFK Grinding, all I can do as a community member is speak my opinion, put into debate my opinion, as a means to sway thought. If you don't like what I'm selling, please, by all the Gods alive and dead, just ignore me!!!! Cheers.

[MrSmith]

How about a 4th option.

If the intent is promote greater inclusion... Then remove any and all penalties for any characters, regardless of level, adventuring in a party.

If the intent is promote RP and discourage grinding... Then significantly lower the spawn rate in any dungeon if level disparity exists. This will increase the opportunity to RP between melee, while removing the opportunities to exploit the level disparity in favor of higher level toons speed killing.

I also think this is an interesting solution to reduce level-disparate-rofflestomp xp grinding and promote RP.

Maybe you have a solution to an issue that has come to my mind, after some days of returning to this option (if it even can be a coded option). The scenario is:

A Lvl 30 character and 3 Lvl 8 characters go to the Wood of Sharp Teeth. With their level disparity, the mob spawns are severely reduced, but the group is RPing in a part of the map. Then, another group arrives in the same map, a set of 3 Level 10s, who want to slay some (still) CR appropriate mobs, and gain some experience (okay, okay...grinding out some easy XP). However...the Area has adjusted the mob spawn down, based on the first group, and thus there really is no "normal" mob spawn to be had.

In this scenario, which group has the "greater right" to stay in the CR-specific Area? The fist group, under a "first come, first server Rule?" Or the more CR appropriate group, which is the second group? Because one-or-the-other groups now would dictate the mechanical experience of the Area.

Considering the general low population of the Server currently and the many low and mid- CR Areas BGTSCC currently has, this is likely a infrequent "problem." But it relates to an earlier issue BGTSCC experienced when it had more Areas using the CR Scaling Mechanic, where higher level toons would enter an Area with a normal CR, and thus it would adjust the mobs into a higher CR, then a lower Level PC(s) would come through, and get murderated by said "suped up" mobs. And then Players would get kinda upset.

As far as I can tell, there is no mechanic in place to bar lowbies from grouping up with highbies. The only mechanical "penalization" going on is that such disparate Level grouping causes XP gained from "grinding" mobs to reduce to a non-profitable Level. Though, to balance it, Chat XP still "pays out" at a very good and consistent rate.

---

---

---

I just want to say something else: I'm not anti-grinding, as I also do sometimes kill mobs in a grinding fashion in order to achieve a Level. But I am of the school of thought to not promote it, nor say it is a okay/fair thing to have on a Role-play server. I do wish there were more equally profitable means besides lootz/grindz activity on BGTSCC, and with the Chat XP increase, something is now slightly better than such.

But essentially, my words against grinding or making grinding easier is in order to uphold a greater attention to improving GAINS via role-play investment. Grinding is an OOC thought and act. I agree, it has it's value and achieves a goal. But I'm personally unconvinced that goal is an IC goal, but absolutely an OOC goal. As grinding is permitted on BTGSCC, except for AFK Grinding, all I can do as a community member is speak my opinion, put into debate my opinion, as a means to sway thought. If you don't like what I'm selling, please, by all the Gods alive and dead, just ignore me!!!! Cheers.

Steve, as always... you enrich the dialogue!

I opine the first scenario is bound to happen more frequently if/ when the 4th option were adopted, because the rule /mechanical changes would promote RP and discourage grinding by speed killing.

If a second group (3 x Lvl 10) were to arrive... this too is an RP opportunity. The elder statesperson (Lvl 30) could use the opportunity to remove themselves from the calculus by RP'ing the value/merit of a party of six to venture forth. To your point, the dungeon is set at low spawn rate because of the 30th level toon's presence. RP accomplished, 30th level toons should extricate themselves from the RP and dungeon to allow a party of six to enjoy the dungeon in its unfettered form.

Cheers!
MrSmith

[Almarea90]

Kindly remain on topic.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Happy posting.