Community Proposal : Weightless Rings & Scrolls

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Current standard weight of rings is 0.1 lbs in game, though the average weight of wedding bands RL is approximately 3.5 - 5.5 grams.
1 lb is 453 grams. This would mean in game a 0.1 lb ring is about 12 times heavier.

Scrolls are also 0.1 lbs, stackable to 10. GSM is about 100 individual pages per 1 lb by comparison.

Archers are carrying 500+ arrows without weight.

[Goat]

Not if we eventually bring in bags.

Scrolls have weight atm makes sense. But if we bring in bags your going to have people scrolling everything possible.

Obv there's issues with current bags and thsts why were oendijg them but we want them in sooner than lster... , but this would mean unlimited scrolls, and essentially problems on the backend I would assume.

I guess thees an issue with arrows too In that regard now that I think about it. Huh.

For me rings changing isn't a big deal. Scrolls having no weight with the direction we wanted to go might be an issue though

[wangxiuming]

I would be happy with either option!

[DaloLorn]

Not if we eventually bring in bags.

Scrolls have weight atm makes sense. But if we bring in bags your going to have people scrolling everything possible.

Obv there's issues with current bags and thsts why were oendijg them but we want them in sooner than lster... , but this would mean unlimited scrolls, and essentially problems on the backend I would assume.

I guess thees an issue with arrows too In that regard now that I think about it. Huh.

Well, the stack size has basically no effect on the item's memory footprint, and bags still have a maximum capacity. I don't think there's any technical obstacles worth considering here.

As far as the balancing goes... well, scrolls do get a raw deal nowadays. More expensive per cast (50 scrolls cost twice as much to craft as a wand of the same spell and CL), heavier (wands weigh 1 pound for 50 casts, versus 1 pound for 10 casts), denser (only up to 10 casts per stack), and harder to use cross-class. Pretty much the only upsides are better vendor availability, flexible CLs, being craftable by any wizard (if arcane), and being able to go past level 4 spells.

[Goat]

Not if we eventually bring in bags.

Scrolls have weight atm makes sense. But if we bring in bags your going to have people scrolling everything possible.

Obv there's issues with current bags and thsts why were oendijg them but we want them in sooner than lster... , but this would mean unlimited scrolls, and essentially problems on the backend I would assume.

I guess thees an issue with arrows too In that regard now that I think about it. Huh.

Well, the stack size has basically no effect on the item's memory footprint, and bags still have a maximum capacity. I don't think there's any technical obstacles worth considering here.

As far as the balancing goes... well, scrolls do get a raw deal nowadays. More expensive per cast (50 scrolls cost twice as much to craft as a wand of the same spell and CL), heavier (wands weigh 1 pound for 50 casts, versus 1 pound for 10 casts), denser (only up to 10 casts per stack), and harder to use cross-class. Pretty much the only upsides are better vendor availability, flexible CLs, being craftable by any wizard (if arcane), and being able to go past level 4 spells.

It's not the stack size I'm speaking of. It's literally people having 1000 stacks of arrows and storing them. There were memory issues from when we tested recently from what I recall though this was to do with 'all items' not just arrows.

Scrolls are vastly available yes, but theres a limit to how many you can carry, page full of them is still a decent amount of weight, and amount wise its hard to go crazy with them past this if your carrying wands too, potions, etc.

Having this + bags on top grants you unlimited scrolls. You could have as many as you want of any type that weighs nothing.

If we're going to zero out scrolls, then I would say no bags should come, period. One or the other.

[Deathgrowl]

Having this + bags on top grants you unlimited scrolls. You could have as many as you want of any type that weighs nothing.

I have no particular preference in whether they are weightless or not, but is this a balance concern? Sure, you can have a lot of scrolls, but there's only really a handful of spells that are particularly useful from scrolls, at least of those that are available from shops. It's not like someone is going to stock up on Finger of Death scrolls with like 17 DC that they'll try to spam kill a mob - much less a boss - with. I have several characters with one full page of scrolls, and most of them see basically no use, except in some events.

If the concern is someone being able to carry "unlimited" scrolls of spell mantle, disjunction and bigby hands for PvP reasons, I don't know I see the point either. If one bout of PvP sees you run through several stacks of either of those scrolls, I think it's probably time to exfiltrate and do something more productive with your time?

Am I missing some scroll utility secret here?

[Goat]

Having this + bags on top grants you unlimited scrolls. You could have as many as you want of any type that weighs nothing.

I have no particular preference in whether they are weightless or not, but is this a balance concern? Sure, you can have a lot of scrolls, but there's only really a handful of spells that are particularly useful from scrolls, at least of those that are available from shops. It's not like someone is going to stock up on Finger of Death scrolls with like 17 DC that they'll try to spam kill a mob - much less a boss - with. I have several characters with one full page of scrolls, and most of them see basically no use, except in some events.

If the concern is someone being able to carry "unlimited" scrolls of spell mantle, disjunction and bigby hands for PvP reasons, I don't know I see the point either. If one bout of PvP sees you run through several stacks of either of those scrolls, I think it's probably time to exfiltrate and do something more productive with your time?

Am I missing some scroll utility secret here?

There are plenty of scrolls that see DM events, but you're making people become the jack-of-all-trades when they have everything to boot on them over someone who has the spell naturally. I don't particular care about the PVP aspect of it. But if everyone has every important scroll for every situation stored in them, it makes it a bit less, eh.

And one page of scrolls generally isn't enough to hold most scrolls you want, I find myself swapping from time to time. But there's plenty of spells, communication ones, utility ones, combat ones, etc etc. Everyone shouldn't be 'ready' for every situation, and that's what this will create imo. More than it is now.

But that's just my say anyways

[selhan]

Far as Arrows being unlimited...

x20 Arrows its 3 lb
x10 Bolts 1 lb



Having some specific arrows and bolts in your quiver makes sense , you shouldnt be able to fit 500 in a quiver . Bows with unlimited arrows would solve the issue but it has a con, limits the types you can use.

I mean..if we are going to stick to standard lore etc as a baseline


I think the weight of rings is currently okay. Its not on the level of absurd nor can I find anything that stating the actual weight far as DnD goes. Their made of metals or wood or vines etc. Now a days in rl theres ring that surely got some weight on them given the quality of the ring. A bag full of rings is going to cost some weight. A few rows of rings seems reasonable, given we only got 2 fingers we can mechanically equip rings on. 20? Might as well introduce toe rings.

Same goes with scrolls.

Physical Description-
A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8 ½ inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide. A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8 ½ inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each extra spell. Scrolls that hold three or more spells are usually fitted with reinforcing rods at each end rather than simple strips of leather. A scroll has AC 9, 1 hit point, hardness 0, and a break DC of 8.

A jack of all trades is a thing really, however can a person be a walking library? That's a bit much. We getting bags, I say lets just settle with that for now and see how things go first. If a man gots a bag dedicated of holding 100 scrolls hey fine i think its okay, however to avoid those types from outshining the characters that can cast them because their an actual mage, thats where durations , strength of the spell comes in and simply a DM to enforce it. IF the scrolls says its last one minute, dont let them rp its going for 1 hour. Overall i say no need to change the weight of scrolls , its not something overly absurd.

Something absurd was the Prayer of Gods book/trinket where you can cast light and the prayer spell. THAT Book is 6 Pounds! Thats my definition of absurd.

[CarlPoppa]

Whenever I attend a DM event I prepare a large amount of scrolls, some bought from vendors, others made by players. But I'm always restricted by weight since my Sorceress has no strength. While it would be convenient to bring more scrolls, I think Goat is probably right.... It's not a step in the right direction.

[DaloLorn]

On the other hand, a much stronger non-caster with 33 modified UMD can pack and use as many scrolls as their inventory slots permit, handily outcasting the poor STR-locked sorceress.

[CarlPoppa]

Sure, if they want to lower their damage output

[blazerules]

There are plenty of scrolls that see DM events, but you're making people become the jack-of-all-trades when they have everything to boot on them over someone who has the spell naturally. I don't particular care about the PVP aspect of it. But if everyone has every important scroll for every situation stored in them, it makes it a bit less, eh.

And one page of scrolls generally isn't enough to hold most scrolls you want, I find myself swapping from time to time. But there's plenty of spells, communication ones, utility ones, combat ones, etc etc. Everyone shouldn't be 'ready' for every situation, and that's what this will create imo. More than it is now.

But that's just my say anyways

Instead of spells requiring spell components how about making it so scrolls do? Cant be a jack of all trades then.

[selhan]

Jack of All Trades - thats what some Rogues are for!

[Aspect of Sorrow]

There are plenty of scrolls that see DM events, but you're making people become the jack-of-all-trades when they have everything to boot on them over someone who has the spell naturally. I don't particular care about the PVP aspect of it. But if everyone has every important scroll for every situation stored in them, it makes it a bit less, eh.

And one page of scrolls generally isn't enough to hold most scrolls you want, I find myself swapping from time to time. But there's plenty of spells, communication ones, utility ones, combat ones, etc etc. Everyone shouldn't be 'ready' for every situation, and that's what this will create imo. More than it is now.

But that's just my say anyways

Instead of spells requiring spell components how about making it so scrolls do? Cant be a jack of all trades then.

Increase the vendor scrolls higher than crafted ones.

[Goat]

Adding spell components defeats the purpose of space and literally I'd rather just leave the scrolls as is since I've not been a fan of spell components myself atm. I get the idea, but it won't change much before I'm hoping even if one day spell components does get a full community of agreement, that it wouldn't be complex, rather I'd be hoping for less ingredients but more per cast, rather then having 50 ingredients. But they'd still on a DM event/etc beable to cast whatever they want freely.

But spell components at least to me, is just another step of eating money from the mage and won't change them spamming spells. It's just a gold sink, an additional step. But I'm going off topic, it just goes to be too complex for a games that is a game first. But I might be in the minority here. Or not.

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Though for other issues other then complexity but maybe it's because I feel like the current mage gets absolutely boned and you're already limiting the mage by spell slots. I would rather look at spell slots amounts/etc rather then add spell components if you 'wanted' to limit them - but I don't think it needed, personally. At least not until you actually adjust PvE first.