Wacky Warlock DCs - Baleful Polymorph and Tenacious Plague

[wurdpass]

In both cases I tested in JEGS where I took the Extra Invocations Feat for Baleful Polymorph and Tenacious Plague. Then I also added both of these invocations to my normal Warlock spellbook.

For Baleful Polymorph it was pretty simple: When I used the spellbook invocation my DC was 28. When I used the feat based invocation my DC was 26. My expectation is that this is due to Ability Focus Invocation not being counted for the Baleful Polymorph affect.

For Tenacious Plague it was a little weirder:
For Tenacious Plague I don't know how to see the AB of the plague, all I see in the log is the damage it deals which shouldn't change based on
But I can see the Fortitude Save vs. Poison that the mob will take.
In this case, the initial save was the same: 27. This makes sense, since the Effective Level of Tenacious Plague is 5, one less than Baleful Polymorph at 6.
However, after the initial save, something weird happened that I have not seen explained in the wiki: the saves decreased.
The save for the Tenacious Plague cast from the Extra Invocation feat became 24. The save for the Tenacious Plague cast from the Warlock spellbook became 21. Even lower?

I took a screen recording of myself doing this in JEGS if that would help, although it should be reasonably easy to replicate with an epic level warlock with Ability Focus: Invocation and the two relevant Extra Invocation feats.

[metaquad4]

I'll have to update this post with a screenshot at some point when I can get around to it, but speaking of Wacky Warlock DCs...

I've had cases where the DCs of my blasts will.... spontaneously raise and lower. It's the wierdest thing.

Here's some examples, just using eldritch chain with essences. I've seen this happen across beshadowed essence, bewitching, tempest...

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[00:30] Delilah Grey casts Eldritch Chain ()
[00:30] Delilah Grey attempts Ranged Touch Attack on {Troll_cr16}<c=plum>Giant Troll</c> : *hit* : (10 + 18 = 28)
[00:30] {Troll_cr16}<c=plum>Giant Troll</c> : Reflex Save : *failure* : (5 + 12 = 17 vs. DC: 28)
[00:30] Delilah Grey damages {Troll_cr16}<c=plum>Giant Troll</c>: 44 (44 Electrical)
[00:30] Flurry of Blows : Alexander attacks {Giant_cr17}<c=plum>Ettin</c> : *hit* : (8 + 21 = 29)
[00:30] Alexander damages {Giant_cr17}<c=plum>Ettin</c>: 23 (12 Physical 4 Magical 7 Cold)
[00:30] Ivor Zalios casts Storm Bolt
[00:30] Flurry of Blows : Alexander attacks {Giant_cr17}<c=plum>Ettin</c> : *hit* : (14 + 31 = 45)
[00:30] {Giant_cr17}<c=plum>Ettin</c> is casting Balagarn's Iron Horn
[00:30] Ivor Zalios damages {Troll_cr16}<c=plum>Giant Troll</c>: 36 (36 Electrical)
[00:30] Alexander damages {Giant_cr17}<c=plum>Ettin</c>: 13 (7 Physical 4 Magical 2 Cold)
[00:30] Flurry of Blows : Alexander attacks {Giant_cr17}<c=plum>Ettin</c> : *hit* : (13 + 26 = 39)
[00:30] Delilah Grey is casting Eldritch Chain ()
[00:30] {Troll_cr16}<c=plum>Giant Troll</c> attacks Ivor Zalios : *miss* : (15 + 21 = 36)
[00:30] Alexander damages {Giant_cr17}<c=plum>Ettin</c>: 23 (12 Physical 4 Magical 7 Cold)
[00:30] Delilah Grey casts Eldritch Chain ()
[00:30] Delilah Grey attempts Ranged Touch Attack on {Troll_cr16}<c=plum>Giant Troll</c> : *hit* : (3 + 18 = 21)
[00:30] {Troll_cr16}<c=plum>Giant Troll</c> : Reflex Save : *success* : (20 + 12 = 32 vs. DC: 29)
#DC 28 or 29? The game can't decide xD

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[00:31] Delilah Grey casts Eldritch Chain ()
[00:31] Delilah Grey attempts Ranged Touch Attack on {Giant_cr17}<c=plum>Ettin</c> : *hit* : (13 + 18 = 31)
[00:31] {Giant_cr17}<c=plum>Ettin</c> : Reflex Save : *failure* : (7 + 14 = 21 vs. DC: 28)
[00:31] Delilah Grey attempts Ranged Touch Attack on {Troll_cr16}<c=plum>Giant Troll</c> : *hit* : (18 + 22 = 40)
[00:31] Delilah Grey damages {Giant_cr17}<c=plum>Ettin</c>: 39 (39 Electrical)
[00:31] {Troll_cr16}<c=plum>Giant Troll</c> : Reflex Save : *failure* : (9 + 12 = 21 vs. DC: 22)
[00:31] Delilah Grey damages {Troll_cr16}<c=plum>Giant Troll</c>: 21 (21 Electrical)
#Another cool one. DC 28 and DC 22.
#Did my AB also fluctuate? What

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[14:24] Delilah Grey casts Eldritch Chain ()
[14:24] Delilah Grey attempts Ranged Touch Attack on {cr22} <c=plum>Gnoll Hunter</c> : *hit* : (19 + 18 = 37)
[14:24] {cr22} <c=plum>Gnoll Hunter</c> : Will Save : *failure* : (8 + 7 = 15 vs. DC: 27)
[14:24] <c=tomato>You penetrated through your foe's spell resistance!</c>
[14:24] {cr22} <c=plum>Gnoll Hunter</c> : Will Save vs. Mind Spells : *failure* : (9 + 7 = 16 vs. DC: 29)
VS
[14:25] Delilah Grey casts Eldritch Chain ()
[14:25] Delilah Grey attempts Ranged Touch Attack on {cr23} <c=plum>Gnoll Bloodrager</c> : *hit* : (17 + 18 = 35)
[14:25] {cr23} <c=plum>Gnoll Bloodrager</c> : Will Save : *failure* : (9 + 6 = 15 vs. DC: 28)
[14:25] <c=tomato>You penetrated through your foe's spell resistance!</c>
[14:25] {cr23} <c=plum>Gnoll Bloodrager</c> : Will Save vs. Mind Spells : *failure* : (8 + 6 = 14 vs. DC: 30)
VS
[14:26] Delilah Grey casts Eldritch Chain ()
[14:26] Delilah Grey attempts Ranged Touch Attack on {cr24} <c=plum>Flind Warlord</c> : *hit* : (7 + 18 = 25)
[14:26] {cr24} <c=plum>Flind Warlord</c> : Will Save : *failure* : (8 + 10 = 18 vs. DC: 27)
[14:26] <c=tomato>You penetrated through your foe's spell resistance!</c>
[14:26] {cr24} <c=plum>Flind Warlord</c> : Will Save vs. Mind Spells : *failure* : (4 + 10 = 14 vs. DC: 29)
#Most times, It's DC 29. Then this one time (middle), It's DC 30?!? The Penetrating Blast DC even went up by 1 too.

[wurdpass]

Thanks Metaquad! I have also experienced the changing DCs on Blasts but have sort of gaslit myself that it’s not happening I think. Nice to see confirmation.

If you use Eldricht Doom, which always gives a reflex save, you can sometimes see that the same cast has two different DCs between the reflex save and whatever your other save is (eg. Will save for Beshadowing Blast)

It looks like sometimes there’s a big DC drop when the chain hits a second person? In your second snippet. That’s consistent with the weirdness I’m seeing with Tenacious Plague DC.

For what it’s worth, my non-persistent invocation DCs are usually pretty consistent. And in the case of the Baleful Polymorph, consistently different between the Feat and Spellbook.

[metaquad4]

If you use Eldricht Doom, which always gives a reflex save, you can sometimes see that the same cast has two different DCs between the reflex save and whatever your other save is (eg. Will save for Beshadowing Blast)

For this one, if you have Eldrich Master - it does improve Doom (and Cone)'s DC by 1.

[wurdpass]

For this one, if you have Eldrich Master - it does improve Doom (and Cone)'s DC by 1.

But only the reflex save? Not the save from the rider effect?

Good to know though thank you fellow warlock.

[metaquad4]

For this one, if you have Eldrich Master - it does improve Doom (and Cone)'s DC by 1.

But only the reflex save? Not the save from the rider effect?

Good to know though thank you fellow warlock.

Yeah! Only for the reflex save.