A suggestion about difficulty

[zavox]

Hello again everyone!

I want to talk about encounter difficulty and server balance, the server is quite well balanced, in general but it sure feels like its more balanced for solo players than groups, when you group up it tends to end up with one or two people smacking around the mobs and the rest get to watch, My solution to this is not to make the mobs stronger, but add more mobs overall in zones frequently visited. (Especially epic maps)

So why increase mobdensity instead of powering up the mobs in general?
The answer to that is that increasing mob stats will force everyone who wants to experience the dungeon and loot content to powerbuild their characters and I can a 100% guarantee that, that isnt everyone's cup of tea, fun and interesting ways to build ones character takes a backseat for optimising and metabuilds.

Increasing mob density ensures that everyone gets to be part of the run, because one player can only do so many actions each turn, Solo power players will most likely still find ways to run the content anyways because that's what they do.

One thing i'd like to suggest is that if enough players enter a map say starting at four players the mob density increases to respond to that, which could keep scaling up to say 10 players?

Let me know what folk think about this idea!

[predrag]

I would like to see more of the end game content harder personally.
Most of the dungeons are soloable, and it oversaturates the market with powerful loot, mostly from power-builders who can clear quick and easy on their own.
Would be nice if the end game loot spots were requiring group tactics to overcome.
But not sure how much of this can be done in NWN2.

[Heretic]

I would agree. No PC should be able to solo an epic dungeon no matter the build. I’m off the opinion a dungeon, especially an epic dungeon, should require a variety of different skillsets to successfully complete nor should they be entirely predictable. To enhance the challenge perhaps randomize bosses and mobs (or random boss combo) each with different vulnerabilities and strengths to force a reasonable party to continually improvise their strategy. The designer can even include random ambushes. There’s also making the layout less predictable where passages lead to random chambers (kind of like the Ulcaster puzzle section). I could endlessly pontificate on ways to make dungeons more challenging but my point is that it would be great if dungeons were somehow designed to ensure each party member (of a reasonable sized party) feels like they’re making a meaningful contribution. It's preferable than feeling useless because the tank effectively mops up everything with little effort - leaving other party members asking themselves: Why am I even here?

[Steve]

This is why D&D was designed to be an experience with a DM and a group of players—a campaign tailored by the DM to an experience in relation to the Level of the Player Characters.

If you want infinite random challenging experiences always available, you need to employ a "brain" or (semi)consciousness that will run this. NWN2 doesn't have that ability. Okay...prove me wrong!!!

[YourMoveHolyMan]

There's been a large reformat of the pve system underway for months now. They've started rolling out some of the changes but the largest ones have yet to drop.

[mrm3ntalist]

Real time games are like that. Many games are set up for a standard gameplay experience, but there are always those that play the game differently. Thats why, in many games there are "How to ... " videos, showcasing how to do something much faster and/or efficiently. Especially for a dnd game - which at its core is turn based but made real time for nwn2 - with so many different mechanics that allow players to "invent" new strategies to beat the dungeons.

The only way to make every class relevant in combat, is by making this game turn based. Adding more and more restrictions can result in a game that is not fun to play in general.

[selhan]

Heres something to also consider since it didnt seem to be considered.

Sometimes some people have no choice but to solo because either,

1, Theres not enough people on the same time zone
2, Theres not enough 'Interested" People in the PVE Content.
3, The ones available dont make sense to go dungeon running with ie ..."Pirate and Elves of DA" , "Triel Paladins and Zhents Blackguards" as examples etc.


During my regular play hours, its one of the crappiest times to even play, its already a thing not being able to find the type of rp my character is in line with, (Thank God for DM Carmen for even popping up those shitty hours recently and bothering to run plots or one offs)
I've put up scry messages "LF Group" for certain dungeon runs and get no takers. Which leaves me to solo the runs either difficult or not. But to take that ability away completely, surely leaves out any last bit of interest to even bother logging in. So yeah taking away the ability to solo I'm not for. Theres some players out there that dont even RP for what ever reason they have, was few nights ago I was camping in Corm Orp waiting to see if anyone was gonna gather for a Skull Gorge run, one player walks by and says "Sorry I dont know how to RP, want to team up?" And I of all people, end up setting with that because the fact is ..it was either Solo or log.

[predrag]

Not saying all content should be group based
Just some of the highest loot giving end content.
There should be options for soloing still.

I had considered the bellow, given I've been playing odd times too.

Heres something to also consider since it didnt seem to be considered.

Sometimes some people have no choice but to solo because either,

1, Theres not enough people on the same time zone
2, Theres not enough 'Interested" People in the PVE Content.
3, The ones available dont make sense to go dungeon running with ie ..."Pirate and Elves of DA" , "Triel Paladins and Zhents Blackguards" as examples etc.

[Lockonnow]

Add more of those Yellow bosse yes?

[Labradorit]

*throws in some coins of thought*

I am not sure if that isn't already present at the time, but I remember from other server-worlds a spawn script that "created/spawned" enemies / opponents by lvl and number of Player-Chars entering the Encounter-Radiuses.

My unsureness comes from: In my head, even the Gnoll Dungeon from the Way of the Lion would /could spawn Enemies for a Group / Solo Char above the currently present CR. I might think that is already somehow the case, but in full bloom.
Ass already mentioned -> Could be more Yellow-Bosses, not automatically more numbers. Could be "orange" and "red" bosses, to add a new flavour and danger to dungeons. But currently it wouldn't be that case?

Meaning: Tramahsthas would spawn the exact kinds of Enemies within the Lion's Way Gnoll Dungeon as any other char I have. Perhaps some differences aside the "regular".
Could be wrong, feels like it is that way. I haven't notice any major difference from walking the Gnoll Dungeon or the Minotaur Maces aside from the current CR bound to the CR of the Area / Raidzone.
I percieve the Areas like in the Area by CR Texts.

At the same time, I could imagine that adding spawns / new spawn bosses by (Yellow, Orange, Red (or whatever colour scale you like) lvl and number reacting to the group / solo - could be an interesting flavour. So that even lower CR Areas could be a new Adventure for old Adventurers.

Perhaps me being a total tech-noop is missing what already happens with Mobbs and Spawns, but sheer numbers might definitely not be help full. Yet spawns that match the power lvl, even if not automatically the end boss but a very "Strong Regular" it might be. I would enjoy more "Strong Regular" (Non-Character-Adventurers // creatures / foes that would be the counterpart to adventurers from the mobs perspective), without needing more numbers or more even more epic epic foes?

Quality instead of quantity?

So far... so good.

*strolls off into the tech-noop-corner*

[Ithilan]

I very much agree with everything mentalist and Sel said, but I also understand that these experiences are very different depending on a lot of factors, be it build, the group you are in, the dungeon or peoples playstyles.

You do not have to spam flame weapon wands and charge furiously at every enemy to unleash the full potential of your build, through out the entire dungeon. Especially in a party I usually shift my characters playstyles, even in a duo, Lambe and Shandril would often reverse roles on adventures. He would be the shield and melee and she would be the archer, it made for some more interesting adventures than speeding through dungeons at a super high pace and made boss fights be boss fights.

I think we have a good handful of places that offer a better group experience as is. And I would be a bit sad to see everything made into group content when, as others have pointed out, time zones and server activity is a big factor for a few of us. I also personally prefer to scale my builds more towards RP and not min max or super optimize their specialities, but that is of course subjective and it is not meant as a comment on others builds, just that the experience can differ a lot from build to build. And for that reason I would prefer to not see a drastic increase in PvE challenges that streamline builds for people outside of regular group play, backs towards earlier eras of power build looting.

But balancing encounters around player numbers however, I would fully support, so the group play does allow everyone to contribute without having to sit on their hands to let others get a hit in. But I do not think making everything requiring a group will benefit the server activity at all and I would not be playing if every epic dungeon was group content like Heretic suggests, not that that is a factor to consider really but I think that could apply to everything from RP builds, odd time zone players, many drow and outcast type characters, the evil loners and even the people who just wanna do a few loot runs once in a while and swiftly return to RP. It would essentially gate keep them from epic dungeons and I think it should be fun to play here for a broader selection of players, than just X or Y playstyle and preference.