Can we get a rules update on PvP (bodies)?

[SomeGuy]

So, just a little bit ago, I was fighting hill giants with a couple of companions, and we bit off a bit more than we could chew - got spawn raped, and before we knew it, we were surrounded by 6 hill giants (2 chiefs, eep) and as a result, two of us died. Our Cleric managed to escape, and was waiting in Nashkel to raise us (waiting for the spawn mob to disperse, or someone to kill it, etc), when some mean PC (whom I don't care to name) came along, grabbed our bodies and dumped them somewhere more dangerous, that our Cleric couldn't reach. RPed it through tells and everything, but the long and short of it was the character was just evil and mean, and neither of us could bribe her into not "feeding us to the Wyverns."

So, instead of being raised, I lost 1700 XP having to respawn through Myrkul, and then died again trying to recover my friend's corpse... which will be another 1700 XP, when I log back in with that character. ((Got kinda frustrated and just logged.)) Plus, I think an 1800 XP hit for my fallen buddy. ((He logged too.))

We talked about what to do about it briefly... but, well, there's really nothing that can be done, given that in actual PvP (which doesn't cost XP for the loser ), you have to allow an IC out... not that it matters anyway, since losing a PvP costs the other player nothing. So, my friend and I are just out 5200 XP... up and vanished like a fart in the wind, and the only recourse we have is against the rules (using an "illegal" spell in PvP, to Fugue the offending PC, twice - once each).

So, anyway, given all that, and all the lengthy rules around PvP combat which doesn't cost the loser anything, can we get a rule that this kind of body removal is also verbotten? Seems only fair, as moving someone's body to a more dangerous area can/will cost XP, but beating them in a PvP won't.

Thanks.

[ragnarok1983]

Sounds a bit like a print-screen and report situation. I've actually done it to people... but at least I'd raise them afterward. And heck, that'd only be after a unique situation like... them taunting me and me finding their corpse five mins later.

The beholder sends his love, necromancer. *winks*

But yeah, sounds like a reportable thing. Contact the DM(s) in a PM.

[SomeGuy]

Sounds a bit like a print-screen and report situation. I've actually done it to people... but at least I'd raise them afterward. And heck, that'd only be after a unique situation like... them taunting me and me finding their corpse five mins later.

The beholder sends his love, necromancer. *winks*

But yeah, sounds like a reportable thing. Contact the DM(s) in a PM.

Well, we did look it up in the rules, and... it's not against the rules, as far as we can tell, so I (at least) don't feel like getting someone in trouble over it - just want a rules update so it doesn't happen again, or if it does, at least the person doing it had some warning that it's a reportable rules violation. I'd honestly feel bad about getting someone in trouble over this, when it's not explicitly forbidden, and the guy seemed like he was just doing his evil IC RP thing.

[mar3usmc]

Trolling is against the rules, and this is as far as I read it, is trolling.

[ragnarok1983]

If he was evil... and good at it... he would have animated your corpse instead, or stolen your items.

What it sounds like this guy was doing "ICly" would be the equivalent of carrying the bodies several miles and dumping them off the cliff. That isn't evil... that's silly. It's a waste of effort *or* it's a moderate to mild form of OOC griefing.

I don't make those calls, but you see my personal leaning on the matter.

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Woah --- Trolling is jumping in a thread and making inflammatory remarks. Let's keep our terms straight, hahaha.

[SomeGuy]

Trolling is against the rules, and this is as far as I read it, is trolling.

Oh, alright... that's very much not the way I'm accustomed to hearing the term used. Is there somewhere this type of thing is defined, or do I just need to read through older forum posts to figure it out?

If he was evil... and good at it... he would have animated your corpse instead, or stolen your items.

What it sounds like this guy was doing "ICly" would be the equivalent of carrying the bodies several miles and dumping them off the cliff. That isn't evil... that's silly. It's a waste of effort *or* it's a moderate to mild form of OOC griefing.

I don't make those calls, but you see my personal leaning on the matter.

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't do it to anyone myself... but I can see how ICly, feeding a corpse to a Wyvern to prevent it from being resurrected easily would be a fun, evil, mischievous thing to do, so... enh, I'm not overly irritated by it. Way I see it, it's more a of a game mechanics getting in the way of a potentially fun/funny bit of RP, rather than a deliberately malicious act of griefing (particularly since I concluded it wasn't against the rules myself).

Guess I'd still like it to be made more explicit... then I'd have no issues doing a print-screen-report to DM.

[ragnarok1983]

Meh. Your call man. Doesn't affect me anyhow, haha.

[SomeGuy]

Server just reset anyway, so I can't get a screenie anymore, even if I wanted to.

Guess it was just not meant to be.

[Thorsson]

What happened to the Cleric? A level 17 Cleric should have no difficulty with the Wyverns.

IMO that was OOC behaviour by the Evil person (not character). If it happens to anyone else and I'm on just drop me a tell and I'll work out an IC way to rescue you. I go into the Wyvern area a lot anyway.

[Bulldog241]

Yes, this is totally greifing another player. This should have been screenshoted and reported.

The rules might not say "do not OOCly drag a random players body to a more difficult area just to be a jerk and waste their XP for no reason", but they do say "No griefing". Intentionally performing an action that will drain another players XP is griefing, ESPECIALLY if it's OOC.

[SomeGuy]

What happened to the Cleric? A level 17 Cleric should have no difficulty with the Wyverns.

He was a lower level than that - Raise Dead, not Resurrection. I wanna say level 12 or 13, so I can understand why we might not have been able to get all the way through the Wyverns to find my corpse.

[emolas]

the guy seemed like he was just doing his evil IC RP thing.

Yes, nothing says evil RP like taking several (IC) hours out of your busy day to drag a 200+ pound corpse several miles through the mountains just to feed it to wyverns.

Unless it was your childhood nemesis you despised with all your heart and with whom you had a long-standing RP feud, it isn't worth the IC physical effort it would require so it is totally OOC griefing.

[Desmond]

Trolling is against the rules, and this is as far as I read it, is trolling.

I find this comment confusing, are you saying the OP is trolling (aka trying to cause drama) by posting this legit grip about being griefed?

[Mustang]

Yes, this is totally greifing another player. This should have been screenshoted and reported.

The rules might not say "do not OOCly drag a random players body to a more difficult area just to be a jerk and waste their XP for no reason", but they do say "No griefing". Intentionally performing an action that will drain another players XP is griefing, ESPECIALLY if it's OOC.

I agree, this sounds like like OOC griefing, which is against the rules. Take a screenshot of it if it ever happens to you again.