Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark - How are we doing it?

[Desmond]

I started my Roleplay with Amon as a student from the school (basically a recruit in bootcamp) and worked my way up, even being demoted (the big crash erased Amon, had to start all over . So I RPed it that he failed and Tsabrak personally punished him and demoted him for it) , and gave myself missions in order to achieve the next rank like studying the varieties of surface creatures or investigating the undead in the new tomb that was put on the surface. Now I roleplay him as a High Necromancer of the school, one rank below master. So he still has a bit to go.

Wait wait, so you never actually had DMs or like in the city effecting this RP and you gave yourself promotions/ranks? So your not officially in the eyes of Staff anymore legit then a level 1 claiming title rank in there RP?

Wow. As if being locked down in the UD while major DM events happen on the surface not a week after turning off the portal (aka bhaal temple distruction) was enough reason to avoid being a UD race.

To Answer the Title of the thread. It has been over a month with no portal. No new quests? A new area that really only means something to one person? 523 Beetle deaths to beable to see anything else? I mean really?

If you want more people in the UD for more/better RP how about instead of turning off the portal so no one can leave. You make it a better playing experience, so no one wants to leave? Better and more diverse starting zones. Some higher end content. DMs that run ranks and official positions.

I leveled a character in the UD to 8th about a month ago, it was grueling and grindy. I was a deep gnome rogue/fighter/sd. I needed buffs constantly given OOC to me to even make it that far. The first 300 beetles being able to 2 shot you and then you get to kill 2-20 more to replace the lost exp was pretty damn lame. Right of passage my ass. Most the RP was hostile, which I liked honestly(and expected being a deep gnome). Being a rogue in a city of dark elf with no issue about killing me or anyone the PvP rules really kinda stink it up. How am I suppose to get the jump on my DE oppressors if I have to warn them first? The Pvp Rules, while I fully understand are to avoid greifing really hurt the IC atmosphere.

Finally I just gave up. I really like the hostile environment of the Dark elves. But it is not worth what you give up from being on the surface. More areas. More people to exp with. More towns. Less grind. More people to RP with. More DMs running things and actually taking a hand in what goes on in the lore of the world. I am really surprised that your High Nerco rank was not a DM event/RP thing, like Jonas and Meri's titles. But it really makes sense after I thought about it.

(One more comment on exping and groups. I know on many servers you don't lose or sometimes gain more exp when in groups. This encourages people to share content. Encourages them to be around each other and therefore encourages more RP. Why does this server punish your exp gain from grouping being an RP server?)

[Ansient]

...

It's funny how much of that has already been brought up, considered, and is being worked on... that is, all of it

[Desmond]

...

It's funny how much of that has already been brought up, considered, and is being worked on... that is, all of it

Working as intended, got it.

[DM Sword]

Desmond makes some valid points. Somewhat related to the school of necromancy rant... Why have so many schools of magic in the first place? With the UD population being low as it is, there is absolutely no way to fill the ranks of 6 or 7 specialized schools of magic. I would recommend making things that relate to larger groups of people. For instance, the male and female fighter societies. In these societies, fighter-types can train with their peers, rp and settle disputes in an arena of sorts. This makes alot of sense to me since everyone in the UD seems to have a stick up their a** and wants to PVP all the time. This way you could just tell them to meet in the arena then walk the opposite direction if you don't want to fight.

[cwhit]

I have been palying in the UD for a while now and while I do find it to some degree under populated that is not thing that I find gets in the way of RP most of all.

What I find gets in the way is the notion that:
Evil=rude or
Evil=am superior and will enslave you now

Yes yes thank you... Very nice NEXT...
The trouble is that most people would rather not remain in such circumstances if they can help it... So it's grind grind grind until you are the evil master or oh hey look I can make a surface character...

Now I am not saying it should be different but its dull and bleak by design. Its not enticing.

But I would like to mention that often the devil wears a smile (um not that I believe in devilry but get my meaning).

[mar3usmc]

@Desmond, ok, man, chill out a bit. I am busting my butt trying to make the UD better. Do you see me ingame much, no, why, because I am on the toolset making a new area for new UD players right now, fixing bugs if really needed, and making plans for the next area after I am done with what I am working on currently.

Instead of griping about how this or that sucks in the UD, how about you get up on the toolset, learn how to use it, and help me out a bit eh? I can DEFINENTLY use someone to go through the current areas fixing walkmeshes, mistakes, and making them look better. That is what I did. Instead of waiting for the Devs to do something to make it better I got some initiative and took it upon myself to do something about it. Every little bit of help counts.

Is the UD comparible to the surface right now, no. Will it ever be, if I can put the time necessary into the UD, yes. It would go alot faster though if people would give me a helping hand instead of comparing apples and oranges.

As far as my RPing Amon as he is, I RPed him hardcore from the start what he was, and as he improved his stance. I even upgraded my robes as he bettered himself. Ask anyone who RPed with me. I ain't gonna wait for a DM to "sanction" any RP I do unless it is way the hell out there lore wise. And btw, DM Jinx DID approve of my RP and even threw a couple events for me. My overall goal for Amon is to actually have him NPCed, and then I will move on to another main. How many people here you know are willing to give up thier main PCs and all the items they have collected all for the sake of some cool RP?

I don't like your tone Desmond. Not very constructive in the least. You want things to change, then help. If you are not willing to put in the money or the time to do so, which I have done both, then go ahead and at least do the minimum by posting bugs, quest ideas, general suggestions, etc.. in the appropriate threads I set up.

Now, if you will excuse me, I got some areas to build.

[Desmond]

It is cool you really don't have to like my tone. If text really has such a thing. I am just replying to the topic and last few posts I read. If you didn't want some criticism perhaps a title like "Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark- How we doing, please only list the good things and nothing that needs to be fix or is wrong needs to be talked about."?

I was just relating my experience and what I felt tainted it. That really can't happen without mentioning the bad things. As to the making your own plot thing that is all well and great. But it just surprised me. I figured it was a IC DM run thing. I don't mean this to be insulting but that is alot like playing D&D by yourself. I just don't see the point. But everyone has fun in different ways and to each his own. I would note I don't see what keeps me from coming in game with a wizard spec and claiming high title over a school? Which seems wrong. But am getting off topic.

You kinda glossed over one point, the closing of the portal. Why close it before the UD is worth playing in? You already said it was not as good as the surface. So why cut off the UD players from the RP and areas the surface has to offer before the UD is finished? This is really the crux of my gripe.

As I said before I kinda like the hostile UD race drama. But not being able to level so I have even a hope of not getting beat down makes it feel much less fun.

[mar3usmc]

I appoligize if my post was a bit harsh or made false assumptions. I am doing the best I can with the time I have. If you all really want to see the UD get better quicker though helping me out as previously mentioned is the best method. Please do impart your ideas and experiences (good and bad), but I ask that you also try to add in solutions to anything you think is a problem.

[Molag__Bal]

Instead of griping about how this or that sucks in the UD, how about you get up on the toolset, learn how to use it, and help me out a bit eh?

Are you doing all the work on your own right now, or are there others on the staff that are also focused on the UD? I've seen four new areas added to the surface in the last seven months (Nashkel Mines, Serpents, Amn Descent, Fire Giants). If the folks that created those wonderful areas turned their attention to the UD I am sure that it could be improved immensely by the end of the year.

[DM Sword]

I have a friend who plays in the UD constantly, he is a talented area designer and when I asked why he didn't want to help in making new UD areas his response was along these lines: "The moderators of the BG server will almost always reject new maps for varying reasons, there really is no point in trying." So why even try if your ideas and maps are just going to be rejected anyways?

My thoughts on UD RP: The various PC's that occupy the underdark are typically akin to those old angry coworkers who, no matter how hard you try, cannot befriend, chat with, or even get an ounce of respect from them. Why would I want to RP with old, cranky coworkers?

There are other ways to RP evil, I think the most talented way of doing so is to use coercion, deception and perhaps backstabbing. This type of RP takes days or even months to pull off properly, and is the sort of RP I was hoping for. In this way you can be respectful *gasp* to achieve a certain goal, and them later destroy them if it is wise or profitable to do so.

[Brightstar]

@ZabelSword

You've obviously never had my experiences in the UD. I've never had anyone challenge me to PvP, though I have had a few RP instances of it. Even on my time on the surface, which was considerable, I never had a challenge (but I have skill in the more stealthy arts). As a low-mid level epic character I've been around a little while to know that there are some who RP well and then there's the rest -- kind of like binary and the 10 kinds of people...

btw - I'm more than happy to RP with those who put a reasonable effort into it.


@Desmond
The portal closure was a fiercely discussed topic, and it was too hot to handle so the topic was closed. The end result was to put characters back in the UD -- and while it has had a backlash on certain player/characters to some degree I have also noticed many newcomers come along (which I expected as a result of all the discussions that ensued).

New content, especially for high level characters would be appreciated, yes, and while mar3usmc seems to be the main one who has stepped up to the task, the UD has since seen a new DM and a few events as well. But what's a DM to do without players? At best, play their own character, or have fun throwing monsters in front of those solitary characters out there....?

@Narks
The pathing on the spiral was greatly improved. And it's only a minor inconvenience now (it's easy to click on a point way down below and let your character walk all the way down without having to do anything).

@All
Many times I see newcomers getting started in the UD (and yes there is a right of passage), and I'll offer them a hand - through coercion and other means of course - to help them get a handle on quests and some of the style of UD play. And while I fully expect many of these players to end up quitting, I don't let that bother me, nor stop me from giving them the chance that I didn't have (fighting all those beetles, etc). But it's not something that I get carried away with either (ie: passing out free longstanding buffs, giving away items, and other un-drow like behavior) -- and my character fully expects a return on her investment - which can be realized in time as the character she assists moves into a position where he/she becomes more useful to her.

Often an issue is that new players do not know the lore of Sshamath and attempt to play it like another Drow city (which it is not). It would be more helpful if tolerance was the order of the day, as Sshamath is more tolerant due to trade being one of the primary interests.

Another interest is the wizard schools which are houses of fortification for their respective Leaders of the Council -- being actual schools for teaching magic is third on their list of priorities behind the interests of the Council member. Perhaps they could be viewed as similar to a Drow House, without the same blood ties and devotion centered around Lolth (ie: they have their own reserve troops, administrative issues, and political interests, etc.)


One of the issues that I see is the UD isn't well set up for mass players (primarily due to layout, but also the crashing issues of Sshamath) the way the wide open spaces of the surface is. Right now the UD is what it is. With the changes that are being worked on, someone who is looking at the glass half full will realize that if they work on a character now then their efforts will pay off later -- when the new areas are put into place then I would expect more people to want to see what they are about and create characters, re-play characters, etc. Which means that as a higher level character you will have a competitive edge on the new content. True, any lower level new content may not have much meaning for you, but having more levels under your belt will put you into a position where you have more opportunity to take "ownership" of something that you really like, without the competition.

As far as mass players in the UD - the dynamics of this are a little hard to regulate (right now everyone is "funneled" into Sshamath). When new cities are added this may split the populace between these other places and Sshamath, but the layout will have to change (primarily the winding tunnels) in order to really open up the UD as a place where people will "congregate". Don't forget though that since there is a cap on the server population the more people in the UD potentially the less on the surface. How these dynamics will play out will have to be seen, but it's something the designers should keep in mind - so as to not get carried away with spreading the UD out too much so as to thin the numbers and make it sparsely populated again.

[Eviloth]

Would it be possible to maybe also implement a duergar god? Laduguer?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laduguer

I have a few friends that might want to get a duergar clan together and would like to maybe use that God.

[Ansient]

Implement like http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Laduguer , implement? ; )

[Eviloth]

Apparently they already have the God. But I dont' think it was listed on the Lore page. But yeah maybe to use those exact domains. I picked those and I assume they are they same. I tried using the spells and they all seemed to work so far. False alarm.

[lilani]

Having played on the server for a few weeks, i thought i'd add what my experience has been.

I rolled a female drow wizard, being used to Drow lore i had expected a typical drow city, but upon setting foot into the setting I discovered quickly where we were and that it was not a typical Menzo matriarchal society.

At first this excited me - a nice slant on the sterotypical Drow RP, perhaps it would allow non Drow more freedom due to the city being run by wizards not Lolthites and I was eager to bump into a wizard who would no doubt be eager to induct me into one of the schools (i was a necromancer).

Several days passed and not and i'd not met a single member or ally of these so called wizards. I'd bumped into several drow of course, some were like me - factionless, all the others were members of House Mori. I'm not saying that in a bad way mind you - they weren't terribly overbearing and were quite welcoming in letting me tag along with their groups. I did think about asking to join them, but I thought i'd hang out a little longer to see what would happen.

It was perhaps 2 weeks after I joined that I met my first Drow faction member who wasn't of a lolthite house. I was travelling with felyrna at the time when he appeared. I had seen their name on the forums and hoped we'd get chance to speak and i'd find my way into the faction i'd intended.

However things did not quite play out as i'd hoped, more intent on picking a fight with Felyrna than speaking to me, an argument between them broke out, Fel was killed. At first he was surprised i didn't fight back (i had an ooc tell), but after that rather than speak to my obviously dressed & buffed wizard toon, he departed without so much as answering a question of what his name was and ignored my attempts to strike up IC RP.

Pretty much after that my mind was made up to join with the Lolth factions as it simply was the only faction in 2 weeks i'd been able to have any meaningful RP with, i've rerolled a priestess and have since then been having alot of fun with my faction.

My point here to offer some advice to other factions -:

1) Actively recruit rather than actively ignoring newer UD players, this includes non Drow races - if someone rolls a duegar, being spoken to the way I see some players addressing them is going to be a huge turn off to them staying around. I appreciate they are viewed as a lower class, but there are ways in which to RP that without taking it to the complete extreme.

I've alot of experience in playing Drow from Lolthites to Eilistraeen's - its not hard to RP being evil and yet work with non-aligned Drow (or other UD races).

2) make it easy to recruit new members into your faction, even if its giving them a lesser title & responsibilities until they reach a higher level - having to be lvl 10 to join a faction means most players are going to already be in a faction by the time they are of that level.

A smaller number of easier to join factions works best - 6 or 7 factions for the wizards alone simply means you will end up with small factions with few or no members. Rather have a single 'conclave' faction that has an area for the wizards (its ruling council), and then subsections to include its city guards (fighters), spies & assassins & priests.

3) this is something really for the dm's - if the city is supposed to be ruled by a conclave of npc wizards that took the city by force from the matrons, then their authority (within) the city needs to be felt more. (that or more power needs to be granted to players of those factions).

I'm not suggesting anything overly drastic, but I've witnessed lolthite clerics publically forcing other drow to kneel in front of them etc. I'd of thought that this kind of behaviour would be seen by those in power as a challenge to their authority. It wouldn't hurt if priestesses who take liberties in public within city walls had the tables turned on them every now and then. A group of NPC guards arresting & abjectly humiliating her publically much to the delight of her poor victim might be a thought.

Personally I like the idea of a male wizard led city, where lolthites can't be quite as open as they would elsewhere but at the same time I feel the non-lolthite Drow need to make a better effort ICly to grow their numbers.