The "Epic Store"

[chad878262]

But, personally i can make half a mil in a week, maybe less. Quicker if a risk more.

Teach me Master Yoda!

I will say as a much less experienced player and one that doesn't even know *all* the area's of the server I can still earn over 100K in a week, when I want to focus on running specific loot runs that I know fairly well and have a reasonable chance of not getting killed. (what's reasonable to me might not be reasonable for others though...)

In the end though, the epic store is not meant to be something that every player can use to completely kit out their character head to toe. It's a carrot, it gives folks a goal to aim for, even if that goal is just to get *one* item, that's a heck of a lot better than what used to be available.

[mrm3ntalist]

Any bets?

[NegInfinity]

Always the time comment. Let me know how many hours you play and i will do it in that timeframe. Really, gathering gold is very easy.

Alright, how about 6 hours per week (2 3 hour seesions, both of them on weekend)?

That's realistic amount of time to play when there are things to do.

[mrm3ntalist]

Always the time comment. Let me know how many hours you play and i will do it in that timeframe. Really, gathering gold is very easy.

Alright, how does 6 hours per week (both of them on weekend) sound?
That's realistic amount of time to play when there are things to do.

You tell me. If thats the time you play i will try to do it in that timeframe.

[NegInfinity]

Always the time comment. Let me know how many hours you play and i will do it in that timeframe. Really, gathering gold is very easy.

Alright, how does 6 hours per week (both of them on weekend) sound?
That's realistic amount of time to play when there are things to do.

You tell me. If thats the time you play i will try to do it in that timeframe.

Either way.
You're looking at 2..3 hours per day, 2 days minimum (minimum as in "busy, but still have time left"), the "minimum days" are both on the weekend.

[Wyatt]

Howdy ya'll. We're startin ta get purdy far afield from the original post here with the back and forth 'bout loot runs. If ye want ta set up a timed loot run, it might be best to coordinate it via pm's.

[Thorsson]

IMO there shouldn't be Epic Gear at all. If there is then it should be available at Maltz and cost around 10k gold. Not keen on the current have/have nots divide which is all about how much gold you grind.

[AC81]

Haves and have-nots will always exist no matter what we do to items, gold value or shops. Same argument as builds - there will always be top tier builds, always lower tier builds.

In regards to gold accumulation - mentalist is correct. Gold is very easy to come by here, it always has been and still is. 500k in a week isn't too big of an ask. The biggest danger is falling asleep at the keyboard.

As Ment says, loot runs are reliable. You can do certain runs and reliably expect certain returns. Years ago I used to do one that I very consistently got between 20-30k on and that didn't include items I found that I'd sell at auction. It was purely gold and lesser items. I could and did do this every day, it took about 30mins. I didn't treat this much differently to running quests and you can still do this run today and get the same results. I also only did this on one toon (Rabbit), I knew people who would loot on 5, 6 or more toons.
Once you get a start though, looting is a bit silly. If you want to make lots of gold, Karond wrote a guide but most people don't use it. People like him, me and others have been uptrading for years. I started when I read a story about a man who eventually upgraded a red paper clip for a house, thought I'd give it a go ... it works.
Anyway, I've rambled. The epic shop has affected epically geared players the most in my opinion. The loss in value of mid range items is negligible compared to the loss in value of epic items. Consider an amulet +4 as a basic example. I have 7, each worth roughly 700k+ before the shop. Now they won't sell for 400k. That's a 2.1 mil net loss. Cheers. Then you have the seriously epic items, super high gold value reduced to well under a million in most cases. Items that previously would've sold for 2 million or more are now selling for anywhere from 150k to 500k at the shop. Think about the gold loss if you have say 50 or 60 such items.
I know people probably aren't exactly sympathetic, but the fact is that some enjoy such a style of play (that of a trader or accumulator). This one shop has pretty much destroyed that. Next comes crafting ...

[Thorsson]

Haves and have-nots will always exist no matter what...

Yes, but there are smaller and greater divides. I want smaller; you appear to prefer larger.

This is supposed to be an RP server; is it in reality a gold accumulator server?

[AC81]

What I prefer is trader RP and adventure. I always have. I think both have a place here. What I also prefer is having those items I spent time accumulating to hold their value. Keep in mind I earned my gear by investing time. I earned my gold by investing time. So did mentalist, Karond and many others. I didn't just pose 'problems' on the forums and expect handouts. So yeah, when one aspect that draws me to this game gets crippled, I'm going to have an opinion. What I'm seeing, even after this epic store, is more whinging. More people complaining of this divide, and what's to be done. How about this for a novel idea - instead of people whining that they don't have gold or gear, how about they go and get some. It'll take years, you know, just like everyone else, but they'll get there. Or they'll realise they don't actually need it. Either way, problem solved.

Or we could just give everyone several epic pc's and pages of high end epic gear upon login and save us all that irksome character progression business.

[NegInfinity]

What I also prefer is having those items I spent time accumulating to hold their value.

That is not exactly possible, and part of being trader is dealing with changing market value.

What I prefer is trader RP and adventure. I always have.

What of those who do not prefer to play trader?

How about this for a novel idea

How about just implementing crafting already?

Look, I remember sigil gameplay experience. On sigil, +5 item (which is equivalent to Bgtscc's +3 on server's power scale) goes for something like 2...5k gold BUT gold is very hard to come by (because selling cap is 300 goldpieces). Meaning, getting that sweet, sweet scythe of doom (which is not just +5, but +5 with DC 20 Doom on hit) takes some serious effort because you'll need something like 10..20k for it... but getting over it takes maybe two weeks. You gather the gold, you find the merchant (who is a player, by the way) on Bazaar (and not on forums), you get your scythe, and that's it . It is yours, so you can go back and enjoy murdering celestial paladins forever. Also, you can't twink it to anyone.

On bgtscc, getting the first +3 amulet took me ... I think two months? Plus there was that matter of obtaining those damn twin blades, which I had to buy in Nashkel, for something like 20k each. And don't get me started on finding that damn silver falchion on another character. This one took eternity, at least five failed trades, till the damn thing finally dropped by accident from a random kobold.

In the end, I think it would be great if someone tried to outline standard path of obtaining gear.... and maybe after that Qc or Staff could take a look at it and thought whether it looks alright.

Let's say you start as level 1. No twinking, no grandfathering, and no forum trades. You have 1k gold, and you're a No-UMD level 1 dex fighter. How do you get full set of +3 gear? Amulet, boots, ring, regen cloak, two weapons.

Maybe it is just me, but "EPIC" stuff aside, it really feels like there's a huge hole in gold earning opportunites somewhere in 1..20 level range, and it mostly affect non-magic or low-magic characters.

[AC81]

AC81 wrote:
What I also prefer is having those items I spent time accumulating to hold their value.

That is not exactly possible, and part of being trader is dealing with changing market value.

I deal with changing market value, always have. My point was to merely show that the one's who are truly affected are the richer, it is their stock that will drop in value the most. Note also, that despite the impact on me, I've supported this shop and the shop in the docks, just as I'll support crafting. That doesn't mean I have to love it.

AC81 wrote:
What I prefer is trader RP and adventure. I always have.

What of those who do not prefer to play trader?

Then they shouldn't play traders. Or adventurers. But they also shouldn't sit around a campfire and bemoan the fact that they have no gold or items. I'm not trying to force my playstyle on others, I'm merely saying that each playstyle has good and bad consequences, as it should be.

AC81 wrote:
How about this for a novel idea

How about just implementing crafting already?

That is happening. But our VOLUNTEERS are quite busy.


So ... one question. With the inclusion of this shop (and the docks shop), are heavy RP'ers and casual adventurers more or less likely to attain epic gear than before the shops went in?

[Wyatt]

One of the things I liked most about the epic shops is that they make it feel like gold has a purpose again. I have played here for three or four years but have only ever looted one truly epic item (e.g. +4 with extras.) I was able to amass a decent amount of gold but found that the really good items were rarely for sale for gold. Most traders wanted an epic trade or a trade + gold.

With these shops being added it opened up an avenue for me to actually acquire items that were previously unattainable. I certainly do not have enough coin to fully equip even one character but now at least I have a reliable avenue to do so that doesn't rely as much on the random loot generator dropping me a trade worthy epic item. The rich folks will always be rich, I do not begrudge them their wealth. They earned it. I do, however, appreciate that us in the middle class can now achieve a few decent items.

[NegInfinity]

So ... one question. With the inclusion of this shop (and the docks shop), are heavy RP'ers and casual adventurers more or less likely to attain epic gear than before the shops went in?

Hard to say.

Some of the items can now be obtained without dealing with forums, if you amass the gold.

However, I'm still not exactly sure if the "simple" +3 stuff is even available anywhere. I'm talking about +3 ring, +3 amulet, and +3 boots. If I remember correctly, docks shop had those (at least some of them), BUT they had something extra on them, and ended up costing more.

Also, I don't think that silver and cold iron weapons were added anywhere, even mundane ones without enchantment.

P.S. I still recommend to do that "how does level 1 get +3 equipment for the first time" thought experiment.

[chad878262]

However, I'm still not exactly sure if the "simple" +3 stuff is even available anywhere. I'm talking about +3 ring, +3 amulet, and +3 boots. If I remember correctly, docks shop had those (at least some of them), BUT they had something extra on them, and ended up costing more.

I regularly see +3 deflection items on Mudd's auction for 10-20K, usually closer to 10 these days. I also regularly see dodge boots for 20-30K, usually closer to 20. If anything I'd say, perhaps +3 natural armor amulets are still somewhat rare on auction, but when they're sold they are still in the 25-30K range. In general these items are being sold for about 30% less than what they used to go for.

P.S. I still recommend to do that "how does level 1 get +3 equipment for the first time" thought experiment.

Should +3 items come easy to a level 1 character? In general between levels 1-5 anything above +1 should be a rare find, I recall on my very first character I got lucky and found a +3 amulet in the graveyard at ~ level 7 and was very excited, even though I had barkskin so it wasn't really needed for him. In general +3 items are end game content for most item slots since +4 is still expensive and rare for even a level 30 unless you grind or are capable of doing what Karond/AC81 etc. do and become an expert trader of goods. However, even for someone who plays less (I would say I log anywhere between 0-10 hours per week total with the average probably being around 7) over a period of time you can still get to the point where you have several pieces of epic gear through a mix of loot grinding, paying attention on Mudd's and trading gear on forums and in game. Our loot tables/RNG is really strange as I didn't find any epic gear for my first ~18 months on the server, then I had about a 3 week stint where I got 3 epic loot drops and several really nice/greater drops. Since then, none.

I also have purchased some rare/semi-unique items on Mudd's auctions for very small sums of gold that were worth 100 times or more what the player sold them for. In some cases I could have listed them for sale and gotten even more, but knew the player(s) that would want them and so my merchant made contact and struck the deal. It really is a matter of what you are willing to spend your time in game doing. I enjoy going in to dungeons and adventuring, if I can find a group that's fantastic, but if not I can either risk an area that I may die in or I can go to a less difficult area and be just fine. However, I also spend time looking on the Forums and Mudd's and seeing if there is an item for sale that I think I can get more for than what it's listed at. This may be the 'low end' of what the pro's do, but it works for me and the time I have available to get the gold I need to obtain the things I want, over what I consider a reasonable amount of time.

I have learned that on this server (and probably any other server) if you are willing to suffer the growing pains of learning the mechanics, the custom content, at least some of the areas and if you take your medicine by occasionally testing your PC's limits you will sometimes learn a new trick, a new profitable location that you can survive in, etc. Occasionally (usually more often then you'd like) you will die and suffer an excruciating loss of XP that in some cases may have taken you hours to accumulate. I still die quite often because I am trying some new strategy against Chaos, the Frost Giants, Yuan-Ti or what have you...it's not fun, but I learn something new each time, what works and what doesn't. This allows me (eventually) to add new cool areas that I can go to, instead of making the same run all the time.

The point is that gold may not be as easy to obtain for the average player as it is for M3nt/AC81/Karond or others, but if the average player makes the effort to learn a few things they can still make enough gold for whatever gear it is that they want. They just have to make the effort to focus on learning new ways to get that gold and accept that they are going to take some lumps along the way.