The "Epic Store"

[kellendril]

Well, this won't be a "hey everyone is happy and agreeing" thread..but I need to put this out there:

The epic store is a travesty. No offense meant to the developers that put in hard work to get it in game, but it is.

I've played BGTSCC for several years now, and in all that time, received one DM reward for my RP with Eowiel. 2 weeks later, that item was nerfed, and so far less useful. I've never found anything useful in a chest, ever.

Now, there is an "epic store" where those who grind out millions of gold can go and alter the balance of the server at a whim. I don't know how else to put it, but this sucks. At present, y character of 4 years has 8000 gold. She has had more than 100k gold one time..after selling the same DM granted item I mentioned above...3 years ago.

I think this store is a unfair. Many of us cannot EVER afford the wares for sale there. Ever.

It's enough to make me consider a change of server, to be honest, even though I think of this as "home". It breaks immersion. It alters balance. It tilts the balance of power even further toward the grinders who make millions of gold playing every day and doing nothing but grinding, away from those that RP.

If this is the path I am not sure I want to be on it.

[Ravial]

As much as I don't really say anything in forums normally, aside of RP... I have to agree with this.

This store first of all is located in Avernus. There's no RP reason (Edit: for good characters except maybe saving someone from damanation, but that's also sort of a suicide mission) whatsoever to go to Nine Hells where your soul can be forever damned. Good PCs would actually have interest in closing this portal down forever, but, frankly, i doubt this will happen, due to it being an open IG area, not a DM one.

Second of all: This store seems like a HUGE slap in the face for all the people that ever worked hard for DM rewards. I mean, seriously. Most (if not all) DM rewards granted to players are right now, thanks to that store... they don't hold any merit beside a sentimental value. They are considered garbage.

Third of all: This store is a paradise for all kinds of players mostly oriented on Causal Grinding and earning ridiculous amounts of gold (I know a PC that has so much gold, he can buy every single item from the epic shop three times and still it feels like it didn't cost him much), and PvP mongering powerbuilders, who RP cocky arrogant persons just to hook people into RP offing a pvp and killing them for pleasure. (I already seen it)

Another matter that has risen to my attention is that such a two way portal to Nine Hells is the best Christmas gift the devils can get. One of their greatest intentions is to have such a portal to pour their countless armies on Faerun and change Toril into 10'th layer of Hell. How do we take on that? Not to mention getting you to dip in Styx to be forever damned to Hells. Don't get me wrong, I love the area. Tfunke did an AWESOME job with it and it's just marvelous! But RP side of things has to be taken into account as well.

TL;DR: I agree with Kellendril. That store is just plain unfair and I don't think this is a path one should take with implementing items which are in the "Epic Store". I already seen at least 4 players quitting, one of them being a really great roleplayer I'll miss, because they were fed up with it.

[Akroma666]

100% disagree, but respect the opinions

[kellendril]

100% disagree, but respect the opinions

You know I respect your opinion Akroma, I would love to hear why you feel this way.

[tfunke]

I agree with Kellendril. That store is just plain unfair .

Having made it all, I actually am in agreement with you both in terms of prices in the store being too high. I am also a player who doesn't amass large sums of gold and finds it tough to do so. Especially my old archer character, who generally spent all his gold on consumables to stay alive.

I can see both sides to the argument too though. There are players with insane amounts of gold and there are also those that don't. Some players can invest more time, while others cannot. This is beyond a builders control and trying to find that middle ground can be tricky. I think QC and the DM's at the time, did a great job reviewing the items, but if they are collectively seen as unfair or too pricey, a slight decrease in prices could be justified - i would imagine.

At the end of the day though, I'm just a builder, DM's get the final say.

EDIT: Also in terms of RP, the staff have decided that after a bit of time, the (soon-to-be) 'Planehopping wizard -epic shop merchant' will move around the server from time to time. So he wont' always be located in the hells.

[Blame The Rogue]

i am glad that items at the top end of acceptable enchantment level are now available for everyone to purchase

players dont have to rely on dm events, or guild events, or lucky loot rolls

these items are a great boon to non-caster characters

i don't believe server balance will be effected, as some have/had similar items earned thru rp and events, as well as years invested. and the items are still a step or two below max caster wards

it is true that it takes some longer to earn gold than others, but as mentioned above, this is out of the control of server staff. even for slow earners, if played wisely, gold accumulates over time, and those items will be there when a character has the funds to purchase them

it was mentioned in another thread, that these items are in game, and therefore available to dms to use as rewards for long term events or exceptional rp, etc

[Tsidkenu]

The only reason the prices are set as they are is because that's the benchmark they've pretty much always been in terms of trade and server economics. Mind you, that is no argument not to -change- the server economy downwards for folks in your camp, kellendril.

I personally would rather have everything less than 150k irregardless of the impending whining to head this way from the grinders and looters when their treasure hoards aren't worth a cumulative total of 20 million GP any more.

The other side of that is if everything is scaled down to 150k or less, the loaded 'old guard' can go on an even more rapacious spending spree than they have now.

I suspect that, similar to Godwin's Law, the longer this thread goes on the more likely it is that someone will suggest Vault Wipe as the answer. So I'll save us that effort, hm?

[Darkcloud777]

Sooo... I met a player the other day who spotted me even with all of this "Epic" gear I recently bought. spent some time in tells after. come to find out that his "Grandfathered" gear sort of puts this "epic" Gear to shame. He put it this way (80 Listen and a 77 Spot. base). with spells and wands my max hide is 92 (Greater heroism +4, spider skin +8, mass camophage + 10?, and all of the gear). I will never be able to hide from him. My move silent at Max is lower than his base of 80.

My point here is........ while this gear may seem powerful its not. with this gear at least I have a chance of getting on a more level playing field with the players who run around with "grandfathered" Gear.

What you are talking about is not the gear (though you can't get base 80 and 77 in anything, but I don't want to argue semantics) but the system. Even so, ask yourself: How many players have this sort of gear? I know I don't, and I won't ever. I can't even afford the step down versions in the store, and I won't ever be able to. So, there's my point. I play maybe 8 hours each week, which can vary up or down some, but I almost never go grind for loot. I suppose what this means is we are fostering a system that promotes grinding for loot.

[kellendril]

if played wisely, gold accumulates over time, and those items will be there when a character has the funds to purchase them

it was mentioned in another thread, that these items are in game, and therefore available to dms to use as rewards for long term events or exceptional rp, etc

I guess you did not note that I mentioned that in 4 years of playing this server I've received on DM item..which was nerfed in a few weeks after ..and as far as "wisely played", I don't know what you mean to imply by this, but the gold I have come by in its entirety would not be enough to purchase a single item that would benefit me from that store.

I don't see how server balance can remain unaffected when a store like this is implemented. It benefits ONLY those that have the gold. That is the definition of balance altering, in my opinion. Tell me how this will be of use to my character with her 8k wisely made career savings, and I will consider it.

[Akroma666]

100% disagree, but respect the opinions

You know I respect your opinion Akroma, I would love to hear why you feel this way.

Respectfully, I find it hard to not have that much money after playing here that long.
Do you do quests?
Do you play the auction house at all?
Do you sell gear?

I mean i find it quite easy to build money even at the rate I consume it on a HiPSter.

I like that its price high, so not everyone can go around toting all the item pieces and you have to work for them individually.

[Blame The Rogue]

i indeed read your entire post kellendril

wise gameplay. soloing where one can solo and still make profit. partying where one can and still make a profit. there are certain places my archer cant solo, or even group, and make a profit, unless there's a healer in party. location is key for him, as well as what type of party he's in

the server balance will not be effected, because non-casters with a full set of hells gear will still not match a dragon druid, bard, FvS, cleric, that the server mobs at the high ends are balanced against. this gear just gives non-casters a leg up in the right direction

gold is available for all to earn, at whatever pace suits the player/character

no worries. we can agree to disagree

[kellendril]

100% disagree, but respect the opinions

You know I respect your opinion Akroma, I would love to hear why you feel this way.

Respectfully, I find it hard to not have that much money after playing here that long.
Do you do quests?
Do you play the auction house at all?
Do you sell gear?

I mean i find it quite easy to build money even at the rate I consume it on a HiPSter.

I like that its price high, so not everyone can go around toting all the item pieces and you have to work for them individually.

I don't do quests. They are boring and repetitive metagaming in my opinion. How many times can a halfling lose a key in the same dungeon? I don't grind dungeons to get loot, so no, I can't really sell things at auction. I leveled my main character to 30 mostly through RP.

What I represent is the person that plays 2 hours per night (at most), and is true to an RP-first mentality. I am the person that this offends because it WILL cause me to leave when I see that my game play style can't keep up with the Joneses. It's playing against the house, and I don't like the idea of it. My lvl 30 character will NEVER be good enough when others have the chance to get gear like this that I won't. It's simple math, really.

[kellendril]

i indeed read your entire post kellendril

wise gameplay. soloing where one can solo and still make profit. partying where one can and still make a profit. there are certain places my archer cant solo, or even group, and make a profit, unless there's a healer in party. location is key for him, as well as what type of party he's in

the server balance will not be effected, because non-casters with a full set of hells gear will still not match a dragon druid, bard, FvS, cleric, that the server mobs at the high ends are balanced against. this gear just gives non-casters a leg up in the right direction

gold is available for all to earn, at whatever pace suits the player/character

no worries. we can agree to disagree

My pace is 8k gold per 4 years. I know that seems crazy but I am living proof. .I'm outfitted as well as I can afford. I'm not unwise with my gold. I hold onto it like Miser, in fact.

[Calodan]

This entire thread is made under the presumption that DMs will not be handing out items at all like it has been. Many of the team who built this shop and those that made sure it was done a certain way felt that having these items IG for purchase allows not only purchasable epic gear but also since it is able to be obtained by everyone then DMs can now hand out more rewards to players as well of equal worth and epicness. For you excellent RPers who are not grinders like myself I forsee a much more profitable future. Maybe you need to get out there and RP and get into some events then? Before you knock the shop and cry foul see how it pans out over the next half a year as we adjust to it. As it stands right now it just sounds like a little Jimmy crying because little Bobby got the new toy but little Jimmy is mad because he did not work for it like little Bobby who saved his allowance for the new toy while little Jimmy decided to do other things instead.

[Akroma666]

What I represent is the person that plays 2 hours per night (at most), and is true to an RP-first mentality. I am the person that this offends because it WILL cause me to leave when I see that my game play style can't keep up with the Joneses. It's playing against the house, and I don't like the idea of it. My lvl 30 character will NEVER be good enough when others have the chance to get gear like this that I won't. It's simple math, really.

I get it Kellendrill, but I only play maybe 5-6 hours a week and I still made 60+k this month. You don't have to grind dungeons to sell gear you find.. just go out once in a blue moon instead of tavern RP. Ask a DM for gold instead of EXP.

Honestly man, I think you are mixing up 2 key playstyles. RP and Power gaming. Because that shop is power gaming for sure, caters to the other half of the server. It sounds to me like you are an RPer based on your statements. So why are you trying to keep up with a powergamer if you are content RPing?