Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Aside from House Mori, these are the other UD factions that I am aware of:

Charnag Maelthra: Has 3-4 members who rarely play anymore. Might be a good idea to have the guards react to drawn weapons in Sshamath the same way the Fist guards do in BG. Would at least give the impression that the faction holds some sway.

Breagan D'earthe: The player that ran the guild had to leave the server. I don't think that it is active anymore, but I could be wrong.

School of Necromancy: mar3usmc spends most of his time building these days, so this guild is not very active either.

House Mori, on the other hand, is very active in game and the UD DM Ansient has two characters that belong to the house. If you are looking for RP in the UD, they are probably your best bet (as you found out lilani).

lilani wrote:It was perhaps 2 weeks after I joined that I met my first Drow faction member who wasn't of a lolthite house. I was travelling with felyrna at the time when he appeared. I had seen their name on the forums and hoped we'd get chance to speak and i'd find my way into the faction i'd intended.

However things did not quite play out as i'd hoped, more intent on picking a fight with Felyrna than speaking to me, an argument between them broke out, Fel was killed. At first he was surprised i didn't fight back (i had an ooc tell), but after that rather than speak to my obviously dressed & buffed wizard toon, he departed without so much as answering a question of what his name was and ignored my attempts to strike up IC RP.

Pretty much after that my mind was made up to join with the Lolth factions as it simply was the only faction in 2 weeks i'd been able to have any meaningful RP with, i've rerolled a priestess and have since then been having alot of fun with my faction.

Yes, that encounter was most unfortunate. 3-4 outs were even offered for that one, and that was a bit OOC as Amon wouldn't have been so patient.

I am sorry my roleplay wasn't to your liking, but, personally, I don't like seeing or participating in "active" recruiting. I see it as a very very OOC activity and I do frown upon it. Such recruitments should occur more naturally, and Amon wouldn't be the one in his school doing active recruiting. So all the recruiting I do occurs when others seek out the school. They can send me a tell asking to join, and I will me happy to set up the recruitment, but it needs to all be done IC and done naturally.

As for my not continuing to roleplay with your PC that was all done in character. Your PC stood there silently while two others in your group were very discourteous and insulting to Amon (unfortunatly the other had to leave). Amon didn't know your name, or who you are aligned with. All he knew was that your PC was traveling with a Lolthite priest and that you never offered to back him up verbally or in the conflict. It is sort of a guilt by association thing. I soloed Amon most of my time in the UD for that same reason. Those you fight with or hang around will be seen by others as your allies. Amon is not interested in “recruiting” someone who hangs around zealous disrespectful Lolthite priests. Also, your PC was female, which didn’t help matters as Amon is, while courteous to Jalilen, a bit of a male chauvinist. So I hope you see that I really was keeping IC with Amon and that is just how he is.

The whole of the conflict was basically Amon trying to find out what your group was doing in the caves. He is very suspicious of those he does not know of being spies. The priest refused to answer and was disrespectful to Amon. While she could have just refused to answer and gone on her way, the disrespectful part was not going to fly. And then after that conflict Amon asked your PC the same question. Your PC answered it and Amon found it believable, if not a waste of time. That is all he wanted to know so he had no other reason to stick around. He isn’t going to give his name to just anyone, if you’re lucky you may get his title. If you really wanted to join the school, you have to be far more forthcoming and open about your intentions to do so.

lilani wrote:1) Actively recruit rather than actively ignoring newer UD players, this includes non Drow races - if someone rolls a duegar, being spoken to the way I see some players addressing them is going to be a huge turn off to them staying around. I appreciate they are viewed as a lower class, but there are ways in which to RP that without taking it to the complete extreme.

As said, that is a big no no in my book. If you play a racist drow, you best stay IC without exception. If you hate Lolthites, you best not be having tea with them, unless you poisoned their tea of course or you plan on backstabbing them later . I hope you get where I am coming from. If players can't take harsh RP and understand that it is all IC and not take it personally they probably shouldn't be starting a character in the UD. For me when I RP it is like I am watching a movie, except I am also writing the script in real time. I may even send tells to the guy insulting my PC saying "that was lols, etc.."

lilani wrote:2) make it easy to recruit new members into your faction, even if its giving them a lesser title & responsibilities until they reach a higher level - having to be lvl 10 to join a faction means most players are going to already be in a faction by the time they are of that level.

Why make it easy? Wouldn't that mean that your faction has no prestige, since anyone can join. I am a retired Marine, I can tell you from experience that if we had just let everyone have a pass in boot camp the Marine Corps wouldn't be the prestigious organization it is today. I don't mind if player factions are easy to join, that is fine, but factions based in lore, having actual power in the government, must have standards. The Charnag Maelthra have standards, and so will every single school in Sshamath. You can also join the Charnag through the schools now as it should be. You should start as a member of a school and then apply to the Charnag.

The standards for joining the School of Necromancy aren't that difficult. Take a look at the Schools thread here. Its simple really, specialized in necromancy, congratz you can be a wizard of the school and work up the ranks from a lowly level 1 student. Want to join the regular enlisted, non-magic focused type ranks, congratz you can be just about anything, and class, and still join, but again, starting at the bottom rung, and you need to be level 3.

I also just "recruited" a level 19 player the other day, he is also starting from the bottom, like everyone else. He sought the school out, we didn't seek him.

lilani wrote:3) this is something really for the dm's - if the city is supposed to be ruled by a conclave of npc wizards that took the city by force from the matrons, then their authority (within) the city needs to be felt more. (that or more power needs to be granted to players of those factions).

I'm not suggesting anything overly drastic, but I've witnessed lolthite clerics publically forcing other drow to kneel in front of them etc. I'd of thought that this kind of behaviour would be seen by those in power as a challenge to their authority. It wouldn't hurt if priestesses who take liberties in public within city walls had the tables turned on them every now and then. A group of NPC guards arresting & abjectly humiliating her publically much to the delight of her poor victim might be a thought.

Agreed, this is something that needs to be addressed and worked on.

Loltholites won't force a male drow to kneel, it is very hard to force someone to KNEEL. However, that jaluk will do it, or pay the piper later on at the Quel'lar. The male drow kneels because he knows he better. I have yet to attack someone in town because they didn't kneel.

I agree with three out of three of those points you've raised lilani.

1)
Drow are very social indeed, otherwise there’d be no fun in playing them, if you ask me =) if I wanted to be antisocial or avoid contact with others, I’d still be playing the Single Player Campaign =P

The dark elves are a vicious and aggressive race of slavers and manipulators, but they are rarely martial conquerors. So although they might subjugate nearby communities of lesser races and make raids on enemy enclaves, they are seldom organized or disciplined enough to create a true drow empire. Instead, they are prone to pursue individual achievement and advancement. Therefore, drow are extremely social, capable of diplomacy with all but their most hated enemies or any one who happens to be disfavored by Lolth.

Source: Drow of the Underdark[/i], page 155

Them sitting down and drinking tea with their enemies wouldn’t be entirely off, even without the poison. Everyone is enemies in the Underdark, it doesn’t matter if it’s your apprentice or a Priestess of Lolth, chances are they’re planning to gut you first chance they get. This also means everyone is a potential ally if you play your cards right, and if everything fails then gloating before the kill is important, once the enemy is dead you won’t have the opportunity after all. Besides it’s so much more satisfying to be able to kill someone close to you, than someone distant. This is one of the reasons why Amal and Amon can talk quite peacefully while only hinting at the treachery and malice that stands between them, like an all consuming gulf of their tainted blood that screams murder at each other. The two of them offers polite and respectful courtesies with one hand, while the other hand is busy rubbing the subtle insults in with an unhealthy amount of salt.

2)
Active recruiting isn’t OOC, unless you make it OOC as through Tells or PMs or whatnot. It can be done very well ICly, and it can be achieved through very lore-wise correct manners. Amon was even attempted recruited/converted into House Mori’hyanda by Amal herself, I hope you wouldn’t call our long conversation OOC at least… The only difference here is that she was unsuccessful, other people have carved in and accepted the conversion RP… But I’d hardly call a Priestess of Lolth, trying to convert the fallen back to her faith or destroy them if she fails, bad RP… I’d call that lore-wise correct as that is the main function of the Clergy hood of Lolth.
The main problem I think the factions in the UD is struggling with, is that everyone want to start out being prestigious. The Marine Corps weren’t prestigious from day one, just like everything else they became prestigious over time because of their success. You can’t just make a Guild, slap a tag on it and say “now it’s successful and prestigious” because of the name we chose for it. You build up a Guild from the bottom, and then the surroundings (DMs and players both) can tell you if it’s successful. When you get to this point, you can start making it a more exclusive ‘club’ because recruitment will progress on its own accord. If you do it the other way around, you’ll run into a stalemate where you’ll end up sitting on your prestigious position all by yourself.

3)
I’ve yet to witness a single priestess forcing anyone to kneel in front of them, and I’ve strongly discouraged anyone within my House to do so within the confines of Sshamath. If you do find anyone threatening you in the open streets of Sshamath (no matter who they are), contact a DM through the DM channel and have them RP out the NPC’s actions. This is the best way I can see, you as a player, can help combat such silliness.

I have however, especially after our recent development, seen quite a few people kneel down willingly in an attempt to appease my character and other priestess of Lolth (and a few of our own members have been whipped when failing to do so, but I doubt the Guards would do anything but snicker at Spider Kissers beating up Spider Kissers). I’d like to make it perfectly clear though, my character has absolutely zero influence on the city, its legislations, or the politics it runs. She’s a large fish in a small pond that is the normal residents, visitors, and non-Conclave guilds, but she’s not even existing in the large pond that is the rulers of Sshamath. In all my time on the server, I’ve had zero opportunity to impact that politics or direction of Sshamath. Zero.



Mori’hyanda isn’t ruling anything in the city, but we are still a successful faction there none the less. Personally I’d like to think one of the big drives behind our success is that we didn’t start out being prestigious, successful, or exclusive. We just started out playing and then build our way to where we are now, and we still don’t have anything to say in Sshamath I might add, we just got to the size that regular residents and visitors should be mindful of how they act. Everyone interested in the RP we offered had a chance to join and find out if it was anything for them (whether their characters were actually Lolthites or not, we don’t have a magical screening process or Detect Good/Evil spell that can reveal potential infiltrators). Due to this we’ve had both fun RP with traitors, true Lolthites and what not. Only a few weeks ago we had someone willing to perma kill his character, because that character was caught working against the House. Good fun all around! =)

Most of the events we’ve played out, have been without DM intervention and I've personally not had a DM event since back when Unstable took pity on my low level drow running around all alone in the UD and threw a few mobs at me. If you look at the Scry list, you’ll often find quite a bunch of us holed up in our House where we’re doing nothing but scheming, plotting, fighting, and just having good fun all around while our characters are pitted at each other’s throats! =P

Molag__Bal wrote: Charnag Maelthra: Has 3-4 members who rarely play anymore. Might be a good idea to have the guards react to drawn weapons in Sshamath the same way the Fist guards do in BG. Would at least give the impression that the faction holds some sway.

The Charnag Maethra were the enforcers of the Conclave when they were active, but just about all of them fell inactive.

As for the weapon script, I don't really like them. I understand why it was implemented, but when the time comes to actually RP drawn weapons in the city(back alley ambush or skirmish for instance), A random "Hey, sheathe your weapon, not only kills the moment but ruins the element of surprise. Not to mention Casters and Monks can still pretty much destroy others without needing a weapon in hand.

Yeah, it teaches people that weapons shouldn't be wielded in the public eye in a city, but it can hurt RP opportunity as well.

Maybe an alternative would be a percentage chance the guard yells at you if caught. Enough that you wouldn't take it for granted, but you could perhaps chance it with reason.

If the guard ignores you, perhaps you bribed him earlier, or he doesn't want to get involved with what looks like a personal dispute.

I think given the lack of activity by some of the UD factions, rebuilding RP will be difficult; especially with a Lolthite House being the 'in' group right now.

As always, it rests with the players. Have a group of dedicated players resume the other factions and all can RP together and play off one another to get things humming. That happens, the attention and services of the DM's will come.

It's not easy, but it takes time and dedication of players. It's happend with the Keepers alot these past two years; people come/go b/c of RL circumstances, but newer players show interest and inspire existing members to ratchett it up, if not come back outrightly.

I think the staff can only do so much to encourage their vision of what needs to go on in Sssmath; closing the portal was a good idea, having an active builder works, and more dming seems to be going on too.

Some other suggestions:

Maybe create some kind of incentive for players to make PC's in the UD (loosen the ECL a bit, up XP) while not trying to encourage power building, Run surface vs. ud events since the portal is closed.

The UD, to me, has always seemed to be a rather exclusive club when it comes to rping; the surface is the primary focus, the ECL issue, the challenges of leveling, it takes a thick skin to play there and so forth. I'd reccemend trying to figure out ways to 'open it up' a bit to encourage more people to make PC's for the UD without getting or attracting the behaviors and issues the staff doesn't feel are appropriate, if that makes sense. How you do it? I'm not a supergenius, just trying to think outloud.

Hydrocarbonated wrote:Maybe an alternative would be a percentage chance the guard yells at you if caught. Enough that you wouldn't take it for granted, but you could perhaps chance it with reason.

If the guard ignores you, perhaps you bribed him earlier, or he doesn't want to get involved with what looks like a personal dispute.

I would keep it simple, along these lines as well, given the city allows most races because it's a trade city...i.e....making a faction script for one race to be attacked on sight (surface elves for example) wouldn't make much sense.

If possible, I'd make the guards have dialogue to challenge those who enter and give the player the opportunnity to use rolls like the Hunter Harrow quests to bribe the guards or talk their way past them. Maybe sort them via race: let drow pass, humans, elves, dwarves, etc be challenged.

SteelForgedSword wrote:As always, it rests with the players. Have a group of dedicated players resume the other factions and all can RP together and play off one another to get things humming. That happens, the attention and services of the DM's will come.

If I didn't know better I'd say you were a DM once

Players often seem to be of the perception that DMs should come and make the experience fun for them with a strike of a magic wand. Whereas I find it more realistic to build something up yourself, and if it proves of interest then the player and DM attention will indeed come.
Well said =)

I do think that sorta balances with my rather lengthy attempt at trying to explain "prestige and exclusiveness" comes after you're successful. Not before.

Just to add my thoughts, I think if we had more races down in the UD, that might also turn up the drive to play down here. I know I have created another whole thread on this, but if someone wanted to play a slave type race ( bugbear, kobold, goblin) or even something a tad bit more brute like a minotaur, since we have one that is sitting in the Wing just drinking away.

*However if for some reason kobolds become playable I am going to have a very hard time seeing a 30th lvl barbarian kobold. Atleast I hope it has minuses to its strength *

Eviloth wrote:
*However if for some reason kobolds become playable I am going to have a very hard time seeing a 30th lvl barbarian kobold. Atleast I hope it has minuses to its strength *

Adding a slave race along those lines is a good idea to encourage RP. I would support that with the following toss in: restrict them in level, say 10? Or, the god forbid, application process, this is an RP server, but that wouldn't probably fly from either side of the fence. I'd definately do my first suggestion b/c I don't see a level 30 kobold anything making sense rp wise and the intent to play such a character is almost, imo, 100% for RP reasons. Would a Lolthite Priest allow a kobold slave to become so powerful he's like Chuck Norris? Probably *sarcasm* not.

There were some strong opinions that if monster races were added they should be limited to 15

Don't we sort of already have minotaurs as a playable race. Like someone can pick a mino head if they pick the orc race?

I have a vague memory of seeing one be-bopping down the tradeway, I was on no sleep....so I'm not sure if my perception could be described as accurate...

Not sure, didn't know that. Never played an orc. But don't they have different abilities?