Update on Open question to team evil/morally questionable

[Louvaine]

Not to offend anyone, but I think that conversation is pointless. BGTSCC is not custom lore, it follows the book almost religiously and there's that. It can be a good thing, it can be a bad thing, it definitely has little to do with the experience of playing certain type of alignment. If anyone, character that doesn't fit in the established setting shouldn't be created in the first place.

To be honest, when I first created Locke I had envisioned him differently. I had to change his goals to something more server appropriate. It's just a nature of things. I know I'm not the only one with story like this.

[Steve]

Quite literally, why wouldn't you want your players to turn in the tablets themselves? to be the drivers of the new stories? Don't want them to be able to become gods? thats fair, then don't open up the can of worms that allows them to become that. Let them be protagonist of the kinds of stories you can allow them to play, instead of being an audience to the NPCs of greatness we can probably enjoy more by reading about them in their own books.

This. Well said and to the point. Especially when considering that Canon Lore of the Sword Coast does always sway back to a neutral-good middle ground after every earth shattering event.

In terms of Server lore, Triel is an example where Events caused literal changes, and further PC actions changed those changes—it wasn’t all predetermined.

But even so, affecting custom lore via IG actions requires a high bar of investment, and I’d wager real money many Players of Evil aligned toons are tired, or jaded, or both, to make that try again).

Even when the Server HAS an Evil-centric part, that being the UD, I consistently see frustration to manifest custom Lore changes there. That the UD just doesn’t have enough attention or support to make the custom Lore changes happen. Am I right or wrong here??

[Ghost]

I think some misconceptions are revealing themselves here. The setting is the canvas upon which we paint. We are happy to paint over what is already there, but trying to paint on the empty space outside of the canvas isn't going to make a lot of sense. Some colours are very hard to cover up, though, and will take some extra layers of paint.

If that metaphor doesn't work (and I suppose it's not a perfect one, as no metaphors are), then read what I said about Mag in my last post. She's not invulnerable. Things definitely do change from the canon lore. But I get the feeling sometimes people expect huge changes to be easier than they have to be for the setting to make sense.

What we don't do is alter the canvas for some kind of false notion of "even playing field". It would never work, because there is no "team evil", there is no "team good", there is no "team law", and there is no "team chaos". These are misnomers and the sooner we stop using them, the sooner we will get out of this false dichotomy of "team evil" vs "team good". There's different goals and ambitions even internally in every single one of the alignments. Hells, there's been wars with lawful good paladins on both sides of the conflict.

TL;DR: Things can and do change. Manage your expectations.

[Louvaine]

Not to beat the dead horse, Ghost, but I feel like there had been quite a lot role-play done to change things up or put a fresh coat of paint on the stain that is Soubar. I can name few people who attempted to make impact and I can name just as many who gave up because what you are saying is not something that is felt or believed in.

We couldn't even get a stupid board to say 'no fighting near merchants'. I'm not saying that team good has it any different, or that there's favoritism. I just don't think you realise that the setting is far too stern to be changed. In fact, I consider you to be the biggest reason. You are a strong personality, I know how charismatically you lead the Team, you know your lore and you now hold position of an Admin and I'm pretty sure de-facto HDM. Or did that position leave no vacuum and DMs don't respond to Admins where they would HDMs?

Anyway, I'm not meaning that as an attack. I like you as a leader, you know I applied sometime ago, I wouldn't have done it if I didn't think you were doing something majorly right.

I think it's worth stepping back and realising that perhaps things are not truly what we perceive them for. I don't think we can have any major say in setting. I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't think it's feasible on a PW. I think we can tell stories in our current setting and perhaps the problem is just being on different pages.

Or maybe I'm wrong about all of this. Maybe we're just all approaching the canvas incorrectly. Have been doing so for years now.

[Tekill]

But even so, affecting custom lore via IG actions requires a high bar of investment, and I’d wager real money many Players of Evil aligned toons are tired, or jaded, or both, to make that try again).

Even when the Server HAS an Evil-centric part, that being the UD, I consistently see frustration to manifest custom Lore changes there. That the UD just doesn’t have enough attention or support to make the custom Lore changes happen. Am I right or wrong here??

The investment is to high or there is not enough attention given, which are you saying?
And sorry, what does either have to do with custom lore affecting evil and morally questionable RP?
I have no idea if your right or wrong because I do not know what you are saying.

It would never work, because there is no "team evil", there is no "team good", there is no "team law", and there is no "team chaos". These are misnomers and the sooner we stop using them, the sooner we will get out of this false dichotomy of "team evil" vs "team good".

Associating an alignment with a team creates a false dichotomy which causes us to associate alignments with teams?
Round and round we go.
Looking only at ways where the term Team Evil does not not exist does not mean Team Evil does not exist. There are 'teams' in some ways just as much as there are not teams in other ways.

Team evil were ignored. Now they are not as much ignored. But regardless if you agree, some players feel that team evil and to a lessor extent other teams are being ignored.
Steve will have you believe this is to do with lore. He is at least partly right, but also partly wrong....I think.
Asuraking believes its due to a rigid status quo that prevents certain types of change on the server.
Similar to Asuraking, I argue that it has more to do with a server philosophy that the players on this server need be adventurers seeking ultimately to fight evil or an imbalance in the force. And that trying to be that evil or imbalance is counter intuitive to the theme of how things work here.

One solution is to let the Inmates control the asylum a bit more.....This idea and I believe this analogy have both been used multiple times before.

I am enjoying the game right now. Having lots of fun RPing my evil and good characters. I think for that reason, I will now bow out of this conversation. But please don't stop. It is entertaining and as crazy as it sounds I believe it is leading somewhere and not just round and round. A spiral?

[metaquad4]

What we don't do is alter the canvas for some kind of false notion of "even playing field". It would never work, because there is no "team evil", there is no "team good", there is no "team law", and there is no "team chaos". These are misnomers and the sooner we stop using them, the sooner we will get out of this false dichotomy of "team evil" vs "team good". There's different goals and ambitions even internally in every single one of the alignments. Hells, there's been wars with lawful good paladins on both sides of the conflict.

Team evil and team good are descriptive, not prescriptive. They aren't misnomers, they just aren't as literal as you seem to think they are.

One solution is to let the Inmates control the asylum a bit more.....This idea and I believe this analogy have both been used multiple times before.

Pretty much, but after all this time I have my doubts this will occur. If it happens, fantastic - but I've made my peace that nothing will improve in this respect. Expecting things to improve for the better is just setting oneself up for disappointment.

[Ghost]

After the Amn-Gate war, Beregost was for a long time under Amnian rule. This was in large part due to player efforts on the Amnian side during that war. Even greater effort happened later, when several factions worked together to push Amn back out of Beregost and make it independent again, as it is now.

Steve already mentioned this, but Triel was focus for a lot of back-and-forth over a couple of years, all due to player efforts. It remains under heavy player influence to this day, and things have been in particular motion there now for some time, and will likely come to visible fruition soon enough.

Nashkel has recently come somewhat under new leadership. Mayor Berrun Ghastkill is still Mayor, but he is under a lot of pressure from central Amn, including some NPCs sent there as such pressure. Once again, a result of player actions.

Kraak Helzak, an entirely non-canon dwarven kingdom that was established by players in the first place, was - through player efforts - persuaded to join the Lord's Alliance during the war last year.

The Black Abbey of Soubar was rebuilt because of player efforts. It would otherwise have been a ruin, just like lore describes. Likewise, agreements to form some manner of militia in Soubar happened some time ago, entirely through player efforts.

There are two lolthite houses on the Sshamathean council, all through player effort.

Several temples have been built and gained significant prominence in their locations, politically or socially, over many years. Obviously through player effort.

Darkhold got a place in the Balduran court by player effort. They were later disinvited, once again by player effort. Indeed the war that happened, happened due to player efforts over several years.

---

I could go on, but I think by now I've made my point.

Since I returned to the server in May 2021, and especially after I became HDM, I have pushed hard to increase the potential for player character autonomy and influence where it makes sense. But since so many people seem to think I am some kind of tyrant holding the DM team's leash to prevent them from allowing players to make things happen in the world, let me make one thing absolutely crystal clear: A lot of things that have changed over the last three years have been counter to my personal opinions. My vote has always been one, just the same as any other DM. Accuse me of being charismatic and a strong personality if you want, but there are stronger personalities than mine on the DM team, and we have great discussions about all these things, with all sorts of disagreements. I don't make world-changing decisions on my own. Ever. I don't make rule changes on my own. Ever. In fact, I am told I am sometimes overcareful about these things. And I'm increasingly tired of having to defend myself against misinformation and sometimes flat out lies about myself.

Change the world, guys. Go for it. But please have a look at the world before you do, so you can see what kind of change is even possible where you're at.

[Louvaine]

I didn't mean to attack you, Ghost. We may disagree on some stuff, we may criticise each other or point out misconceptions, but I hope we will never resort to assaulting one another's character.

I think that there's potentially more discussion to be had on the subject, but I'm convinced that you had heard what I wanted to say and that even though you may disagree, you have thought on the feedback given.

That is what this thread is to me. That is why I also suggested regular conversations. We could definitely hear each other out more and for what it's worth, I hear you. Admittedly, I was very disheartened after about page 3, but with your last post I have decided to give the whole 'change the setting' a go with the advice you have given in the last paragraph of your response.

[Titania_1]

After the Amn-Gate war, Beregost was for a long time under Amnian rule. This was in large part due to player efforts on the Amnian side during that war. Even greater effort happened later, when several factions worked together to push Amn back out of Beregost and make it independent again, as it is now.

Steve already mentioned this, but Triel was focus for a lot of back-and-forth over a couple of years, all due to player efforts. It remains under heavy player influence to this day, and things have been in particular motion there now for some time, and will likely come to visible fruition soon enough.

Nashkel has recently come somewhat under new leadership. Mayor Berrun Ghastkill is still Mayor, but he is under a lot of pressure from central Amn, including some NPCs sent there as such pressure. Once again, a result of player actions.

Kraak Helzak, an entirely non-canon dwarven kingdom that was established by players in the first place, was - through player efforts - persuaded to join the Lord's Alliance during the war last year.

The Black Abbey of Soubar was rebuilt because of player efforts. It would otherwise have been a ruin, just like lore describes. Likewise, agreements to form some manner of militia in Soubar happened some time ago, entirely through player efforts.

There are two lolthite houses on the Sshamathean council, all through player effort.

Several temples have been built and gained significant prominence in their locations, politically or socially, over many years. Obviously through player effort.

Darkhold got a place in the Balduran court by player effort. They were later disinvited, once again by player effort. Indeed the war that happened, happened due to player efforts over several years.

---

I could go on, but I think by now I've made my point.

Since I returned to the server in May 2021, and especially after I became HDM, I have pushed hard to increase the potential for player character autonomy and influence where it makes sense. But since so many people seem to think I am some kind of tyrant holding the DM team's leash to prevent them from allowing players to make things happen in the world, let me make one thing absolutely crystal clear: A lot of things that have changed over the last three years have been counter to my personal opinions. My vote has always been one, just the same as any other DM. Accuse me of being charismatic and a strong personality if you want, but there are stronger personalities than mine on the DM team, and we have great discussions about all these things, with all sorts of disagreements. I don't make world-changing decisions on my own. Ever. I don't make rule changes on my own. Ever. In fact, I am told I am sometimes overcareful about these things. And I'm increasingly tired of having to defend myself against misinformation and sometimes flat out lies about myself.

Change the world, guys. Go for it. But please have a look at the world before you do, so you can see what kind of change is even possible where you're at.

In my experience as an IRL DM, I also come across player frustration when things fail to change with their efforts. Sometimes this is simply because failure is disappointing, other times it's because I could have been a little more flexible and helpful with their obvious passion and endeavors. What I've found to be successful, meaning everyone is happy despite the outcome of win or fail, is these things:

1. Transparency and communication. Sometimes OOC communication and reassurances have been necessary in my games. While the element of surprise is a goal, sometimes for the sake of enjoyment and harmony at the table, it requires taking an aside and talking things through. OOC-ly, maybe the players don't know the lore like you do, and they don't understand why their plans are failing. With little for the players to go off of, they might be naturally inclined to think there is unfairness at play. Communicating and educating players on the lore OOC-ly might provide a better foundation of understanding for what they're undertaking instead of just saying "have a look at the world before you do". Maybe they don't have the resources or insight you do. Players are not mind readers.

2. Doing more than "no". Players put a lot of thought and effort into their choices when trying to take on difficult, world-changing things. When they're met with failure, instead of leaving them to sit with that, give them options. Maybe they're stuck, and they just need a hint or a little hope sprinkled in to keep them going. Instead of cutting off the rp with a failure, create a new option. The rp doesn't end when the event ends. Sometimes post-event, guidance might be needed because a lot of players might feel at a loss of what to do afterwards. This contributes to lost passion and burnout.

3. Reflect on one's self critically. Could there have been things I could have done better as a DM? Is there any possibility at all that I might have been too rigid, not helpful enough, or even had a leaning bias, either towards the end result or towards favoring one side over the other?

Like what many players have brought up here, they do not see a time when evil/morally questionable characters have joined forces and had any huge "wins" as of late. The examples you stated may be considered huge wins to you, but as DM's, it doesn't always matter what we think. It's what the players think. Maybe ask "why" those things you listed don't seem as huge of wins to the players as you see them. Why is that? Was there no significant rp from it? Was there no real reward in it? Were there no physically tangible pieces of evidence showing change in the world? Is there an imbalance of wins on the evil/morally questionable side verses the good-aligned side? Figuring out that "why" by either asking players, or seeing the data through a different lens, might be more enlightening than just signing off players as being "whiners" or "ungrateful" as DM's can be tempted to feel when met with player frustration.

I think a "town hall" sort of meeting might be a good solution to strengthen the relation of DM and players. (I have a framework of how it should be organized and moderated, if interested.) It would offer feedback, reflection, and get everyone on the same page. It's much like in pen and paper DnD, where some DM's will end the session with asking for feedback and get a measure of everyone's thoughts and feelings. I think that would instill some trust in DM decisions and a feeling of players being heard. But it's more than just opening the floor to listen. Action needs to be taken too. And at the end of every "town hall" there should be a clearly written statement of what was taken from the feedback, and what will happen as a result. There needs to be a timer on when these actions are implemented too. Preferably within a week to two weeks. Consistency and timeliness are huge. I cannot stress how important that is to player trust.

The ultimate goal is for everyone to have a good time. And like any relationship, communication and trust are key. Building a solid player-DM relationship may resolve a lot of your issues with player perceptions that don't match your own, and make things clearer on both sides of the table.

[metaquad4]

I think a "town hall" sort of meeting might be a good solution to strengthen the relation of DM and players. It would offer feedback, reflection, and get everyone on the same page. It's much like in pen and paper DnD, where some DM's will end the session with asking for feedback and get a measure of everyone's thoughts and feelings. I think that would instill some trust in DM decisions and a feeling of players being heard. But it's more than just opening the floor to listen. Action needs to be taken too. And at the end of every "town hall" there should be a clearly written statement of what was taken from the feedback, and what will happen as a result. There needs to be a timer on when these actions are implemented too. Preferably within a week to two weeks. Consistency and timeliness are huge. I cannot stress how important that is to player trust.

The ultimate goal is for everyone to have a good time. And like any relationship, communication and trust are key. Building a solid player-DM relationship may resolve a lot of your issues with player perceptions that don't match your own, and make things clearer on both sides of the table.

We've done townhalls before:
viewtopic.php?f=136&t=74691

And even at the last townhall, the kind of point Tekill and I raised about more player empowerment was discussed. From what I see, there isn't really much 'done'. As evidenced by the fact that we are still having this conversation. And this isn't a new topic either, by my estimation it has been 'talked about' for at-least 5-7+ years.

In the professional world - when employees are engaged about issues (via surveys, townhalls, Q/As, etc.) it is generally accepted you don't do it unless you are willing to back it up with action and then communicate that action broadly. Generally speaking if you don't, overtime interest and positivity towards change will diminish. This isn't a professional environment by any means, but the same holds true here. Eventually even just talking about it ceases to have any meaning if nothing is done and communicated.

Like Titania mentioned - there is a reason people talk about stuff. People don't like threads like this, they are often stressful. But evidently, we feel things are lacking in the area of player empowerment.

If player empowerment was good, the discussion wouldn't even be a discussion. Players (not staff) would be able to come up with so many lovely examples of what one can do and how to do it. That is a sign that maybe things should or could be better. Like I said before, I have absolutely zero faith that anything will happen. And that feeling increases when, instead of listening and acknowledging, there seems to be an outright "no, you are wrong" message being put out.

It is the XP thread all over again.

"There is no war in Ba Sing Se"

(The townhall isn't a bad idea, it is a great one IMO - but something should come of it and what is happening should be communicated as it happens.)

Everything was going fine until this thread got restarted. If I am going to be completely honest about the state of evil RP: The biggest issue that I have experienced with evil players is the tendency for things to devolve into complaining, backtalking, and constantly taking everything OOC and looking for excuses to hate other players or DMs. Making OOC drama instead of just RPing.

This is a very odd thing to say. Are you saying people would prefer that people just bottle things up and not communicate them because "then other people won't notice it and talk about it"?

Issues don't go away because they aren't communicated. They just fester. And then people silently leave. And I've heard at-least Elly say on discord "well they didn't say anything so nothing (or at-least x/y/z) is a not problem" (something like that - the context was around the XP discussion but the sentiment is pretty on point). Most people -don't- complain. Most people just dip out because they think complaining won't have any use. Or (perhaps rightfully judging on this thread), they might feel they'll be chewed out for complaining.

Communication is the solution to problems. And when problems are communicated, the response should never be to start blaming the players who complain.

I love you Rhifox, but wishing for less communication is not a take I'd expect from you.

Yes, people will talk. But maybe there is a REASON for that. Sometimes it is just excising frustration in a private discord, sometimes it is a critique that should be noted. And believe me. . .as someone who has been on both sides of the fence, this is not a thing limited to people who play evil characters exclusively. Hell, this isn't even limited to BGTSCC. That is a "human" thing.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Hidden: show

Everything was going fine until this thread got restarted. If I am going to be completely honest about the state of evil RP: The biggest issue that I have experienced with evil players is the tendency for things to devolve into complaining, backtalking, and constantly taking everything OOC and looking for excuses to hate other players or DMs. Making OOC drama instead of just RPing.

This is a very odd thing to say. Are you saying people would prefer that people just bottle things up and not communicate them because "then other people won't notice it and talk about it"?

Issues don't go away because they aren't communicated. They just fester. And then people silently leave. And I've heard at-least Elly say on discord "well they didn't say anything so nothing (or at-least x/y/z) is a not problem" (something like that - the context was around the XP discussion but the sentiment is pretty on point). Most people -don't- complain. Most people just dip out because they think complaining won't have any use. Or (perhaps rightfully judging on this thread), they might feel they'll be chewed out for complaining.

Communication is the solution to problems. And when problems are communicated, the response should never be to start blaming the players who complain.

I love you Rhifox, but wishing for less communication is not a take I'd expect from you.

Yes, people will talk. But maybe there is a REASON for that. Sometimes it is just excising frustration in a private discord, sometimes it is a critique that should be noted. And believe me. . .as someone who has been on both sides of the fence, this is not a thing limited to people who play evil characters exclusively. Hell, this isn't even limited to BGTSCC. That is a "human" thing.

UD is the most impacted demographic by this vibe in BGTSCC's history, and has had a number of times where there were vocal uprisings, currently observed as there's still an open wound with them over things not having changed sufficiently in their opinion. The side remarks still pop up time to time, on the Forums, on Discord. The lolthite endeavors didn't come to fruition, even less so the ambitions for surface followers of Eilistraee. It's not that there wasn't an effort, just that effort turned into vitriol rather than constructive point A to point B declaration as things tabled became vague, or some of those took too long in their opinion. A lot of the discussions come in the form of that point A and point B, but rarely does that in-between get fleshed out and that tends to be the crux of the issue. Flowery what-ifs aren't incentivization if neither party can move past that stage, and everything becomes an excuse. Triel's matters have been ongoing for the better part of a decade, let alone Eryndlyn's unfortunate three year fate into obscurity. Rhifox isn't remarking on a need of less communication, just the experience literally is finger pointing when every element of the playerbase along the entire line has a part in its general failure and some self-introspection is lost along the way; often includes the very player making a fuss. The playerbase has grown toxic over it with the soapboxes when it was better applied with elbow grease into communication with staff on intent to build their corner of the earth, crack open the toolset, roleplay within the game to meet milestones and criterias, and just do the work.

The "town hall" is already here in the form of the forum, start writing the roadmaps. If there's a no in the response address that line item and continue to move the ball.

[Rinzler]

UD is the most impacted demographic by this vibe in BGTSCC's history, and has had a number of times where there were vocal uprisings, currently observed as there's still an open wound with them over things not having changed sufficiently in their opinion.

Unfortunately, most players who have/had UD mains are more apathetic than anything these days. Which, it seems, is the point many here are trying to make. These threads aren’t fun for anyone, but let me tell you, frustration is much better than apathy - which simply means people don't care anymore.

just do the work.

What a presumptuous thing to say.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

just do the work.

What a presumptuous thing to say.

Watched it first hand all these years, something perpetuated even today. If a player has time to metagame faction discords, metagame faction forum PMs, and play house in a tent, they have time to open the toolset, time to negotiate what each step / milestone is between their organization and staff, etc.

[Avanos]

I think that this thread is a waste of time, effort and energy - but I will contribute - because some part of me still does care.
Now to answer the question in the first post..

It has been on my mind a bit of late so I thought I would pose this question to the ether, to maybe touch base with other questionably moral folk on the server. For the sake of maybe having a bit of sounding board, how do you other fine folks feel about the server right now?

I feel like the server is dead/only caters to a certain playstyle or specific groups of people.
I'm told that If I want DM attention, I need to RP more... Bro - I can't even get a three letter response "Yes" when I want to post an RP event on forums (don't want to god-mod npcs).
I said f**k it after ten days and posted it anyways.. To this day - I still haven't received a response to the original request nor have I received disciplinary action for god-modding on the post. You know what that tells me? The RP doesn't matter.

In the sense that I am curious about how others feel about their ability to run around and be naughty. Do you find the state of it fulfilling and enjoyable?
And of course what would you like to see improved specifically if you think it could use some?

On this server - I don't particularly find it enjoyable - it feels like you are walking on thin ice out of character when it should be in character. Certain players/groups may dislike your particular line of RP and will make an effort in trying to undermine you as a player by destroying your rep or accusing you of falsities. If you decide to take the route of player antagonist - you must accept the condition of being the losing party at the end. If you refuse to be the losing party, you will be ostracized from the server.

Im really just wanting to gauge how everyone on this side of the fence feels about their ability to function and in what ways they would see it improved. Whats wrong with things, whats right with things etc etc.
And honestly if folk could have their ideal scenario, what would it be like?

• More player autonomy in-game.

• Remove forums/forum RP requirements.

• More consistent communication from DM team regarding requests - I shouldn't have to wait weeks and weeks on end for a response - and still only be left on "Read" - then get fed up and break the rules by god-modding.

• More consistent event approvals from DM team. Currently it works on the basis of a DM will only take on an event if they are interested in it - otherwise, good luck.

Edited to add:

• Remove Tells and all OOC communication from in-game. Tells and OOC should no longer be allowed in-game.

• Remove IG knowledge of things from discord/forums. Records should be kept in-game in the form of player run newspapers, books, notice boards, etc..

I really can keep going on and on with this list...

Now, on the other hand I've been playing on Arelith (nwn1) recently - and I think BGTSCC should take some cues from them.

Example:

9 players vs 127 at exactly the same time (not counting PGCC - that's their version of Jegs). These two screenshots were taken at the same time yesterday. (10PM PST)... Obviously they are doing something right...

Another Arelith Example:

• I've been playing on the server for 3-4 weeks now.. I'm already level 30 - it was a complete breeze and enjoyable to level.

• I've already started up a guild (UD Based Sharran Sect)

• I already own a mansion/guild house in-game and am furnishing it with appropriate guild related gear.

• I've only needed DMs twice in regards to technical related issues - and response time was outstanding (Immediate to 3 days)

Compare this to BGTSCC...

Now...
Just as some people said - same issues have been brought up for 5+ years and barely any change. What makes you all think that another complaint thread will change anything? I've told some friends multiple times - this is a sandbox that belongs to a certain group and caters to a certain playstyle, rest of us are just guests. If you want to play here, and play against the status quo, you need to come to terms with that arrangement.

DISCLAIMER!!
This is just my perception + opinion of the server, its not an attack - its meant to be constructive criticism.

Another Edit:

Great example of walking on thin ice OOC.
I just walked into Soubar (literally 5 min ago) - noticed a group of individuals fail a teleport. My character claps at the failure and has an acid bomb thrown at them..
Now - If I reacted and killed the individual who threw the acid bomb, how much OOC drama would arise from that? Would I be labeled a pvp monger and potentially banned from the server?
(and no - I do not want to report the individual who threw the bomb. If that is something that they consider in character for their PC - then so be it.)

[selhan]

I just walked into Soubar (literally 5 min ago) - noticed a group of individuals fail a teleport. My character claps at the failure and has an acid bomb thrown at them..
Now - If I reacted and killed the individual who threw the acid bomb, how much OOC drama would arise from that? Would I be labeled a pvp monger and potentially banned from the server?
(and no - I do not want to report the individual who threw the bomb. If that is something that they consider in character for their PC - then so be it.)

Cheers to you for clapping at their failure - that's something expected in Soubar

Cheers to the player that threw the acid bomb - lovely rp response

Boo to you for not insulting or attacking or killing them - I'd consider that bomb an hostile action!

insult/curse (low level response) walking up and punching them in the face (mid level response) killing them (High level response)



But yeah to get back to the serious topic..I promise I wont troll!

In my own example:

Player walks into the Goblet gets too fresh with the wrong female. Player gets turned down by the female then he insults the female. Less than 1 minutes later said player is dragged by his feet by a man and taken to the pit and gets beaten to a bloody pulp.

IC it happened.
RP it happened.
Pvp it happened.
OOC Drama didn't happen.
Did that player ever come around again? Nope.
Conclusion = Just a normal day.

I always stress for ppl to be very mindful of their rp. Bad enough 80% of miscommunication happens over typing. What more if their tone is not established. For all those players that regularly rp in certain areas, you may not be a Dm, faction leader etc. But you should help establish the themed atmosphere. When players come to your (Hang outs) or (Rp locations) their ignorance's is left upon those that are regularly there. In my example everything that happened in that order was what I intended to be the likely case. Sure I would have liked that player to come back around and hangout more but at the same time I stand firm with keeping to the themed atmosphere. You break that, you break immersion.

I've had plenty of people that use to come around the Goblet enjoying themselves in their own ways, and alot of them left or stopped hanging out because some ppl or things were "too evil". Did I beg them to come back? Nope. Did I continue to stay in the Goblet? Yup. Why? To keep the establish "THEME" unless I want to find the Seedy Tavern placed in a Lawless pirate village called Roaringshore To suddenly have red carpets and table cloths and a interior designs of Netanya's bedroom ((Imagine the Lewd Lyre In Roaringshore)) .

If I go against my better judgment and cater to players that get OOC emo, Roaringshore would continue to stay dead as it was.

I am very supportive to our server community
I prefer server growth and rather teach or correct then complain and ban, and if either dont work, ignore them, not try to have them removed from the server. When those complainers complain about the low server populations, they have to acknowledge "some" (Yeah i quote that, some of you guys get too sensitive and will think I said "All") of the blame.

Im not an asshat and alot of you ppl tend to think me ooc is nothing but a womanizing creep that cares not for law and order. But want to know something? My Pc got you fooled. I check on people I know thats in hospitals, sick, a player I know in Ulkraine during the early days of the war, was left without constant internet and knew nothing of what was going on in the world, I sent days upon days of news reports, what was happening in the world around them, sending correct information to news stations so that players town would not be overlooked for evacuation efforts. My PC might be the bad guy , I am not.

Its a common thing since the age of society for people to point blame on the ones assumed to have the ability to make change. Some of you guys know me, and recently I did join the Dev team and I'll tell you, from what I see on this side of the world..everything these guys are doing , they are doing it base off the players input. And it doesnt happen without its headaches. As the player bartender I can say , theres a whole lotta DM stuff/ plots /event/ out there, but no bodies making the proper moves to pick up on them!! Theres DM's WAITING For players to investigate things so they can progress with their events. ((And theres a whole lotta DM stuff players are waiting for response too!))

I wont ignore what Avanos said, there times you wait 3 months for a simple 2-3 letter word "no" or "yes". Not every DM is the same. Hell some Dm's respond within a day, some within the week. Even I had my own share of that experience but I surely not gonna stand around waiting, I gonna find something else to do.

I myself personally would not try overthrowing Mag, why cause shes establish in Lore up until a certain year. But hey thats just me. I'd go focus elsewhere like Darkhold Vale , hell that place is nice for what it is. Darkhold got ARMIES and a Scary Witch! I did always wonder why some ppl only see the players along side of them. Some players do have well over 300 npcs at their very beckoning.

Its not hard to play evil in my PoV. Nor is it hard to play evil openly. It just seems ppl want to play evil but not want to be secluded to a small player base circle due to a lack of RP opportunities. Just my opinion. Hell I seen ppl flip between evil and good when the activity flips. tsk tsk no dignity!