Restructure or Status Quo

[Planehopper]

Best case scenario is that everyone remains respectful, this thread remains open, and serves as a productive conversation between interested parties.

We can't reach that if folks are snide, inflammatory, hyperbolic, or disingenuous about their status here as a player.

Please carry on with best case scenario goals!

Thank you.

[DM SummerBreeze]

Best case scenario is that everyone remains respectful, this thread remains open, and serves as a productive conversation between interested parties.

We can't reach that if folks are snide, inflammatory, hyperbolic, or disingenuous about their status here as a player.

Please carry on with best case scenario goals!

Thank you.

To be quite frank:

to respond to the "Remains tespectful" and keeping this thread open ( Which I dont think it should continue to be, honestly. But I leave that to your call.)

We have 2 threads going now that essentially seem to be their entire goal to tear down the DM team. It's old. It's tired. Its effecting team morale. We've had 3 DM's leave in the last week, largely due to these threads ( other factors as well, but a huge part were this thread, and the evil RP one.).

to everyone else,

We've had this "server restructure" conversation in various forms about every 6 months for the last 3 years. The problem with them is every player pulls in a different direction and they all think they are "right". JAG here, in my experience is echoing what I would say the "silent majority" tend to say or feel. The lawless/no rules crowd are actually a vocal minority that tend to just gravitate toward these types of discussions on the forums. There are even folks who barely ever log into the server taking part in discussions here as well. I doubt even if we changed the status quo they would start logging in regularly.

The rules have changed and been revised multiple times, even recently. Some rules are just here to stay, some can be changed and have been changed when a player or group of players has been very convincing, a recent example being the Disguise rules. But every person here seems to hyper fixate on a specific thing (like slaves.) rather than actually trying to convince any of us that changing it is worth the headaches it could potentially cause.

Sorry but "everyones a thin skinned baby and I want X Y Z thing" is not a convincing argument folks. Besides, if you all want more consequences to actions, we literally already do that in most DM events. This has been a thing for quite a while now, I even have it in my post for my personal DM rules to remind folks that this is generally how our team roles these days, with some exceptions, this sort of furthers my earlier point that a lot of people making this type of comment hasn't really played much in a while, or isn't playing out in the open and trying to get involved. Nothing happens if people dont take action after all.

I want to also mention that this server is super old. Making drastic rule changes at this point would likely cause a lot of folks to just quit and never come back, and I think most in staff would rather that didn't happen. In the end we want people to have fun here and also be able to have the opportunity, as JAG said, to say "no" when something isn't fun for them and walk away. There is room for both playstyles to engage here if the right player effort is actually put forward in game.

This is the last post i'm going to make in this "Restructure" thread because I honestly dont see this going anywhere valuable and I dont honestly feel much of whats been put forward has been particularly convincing to drastically change anything. I fully anticipate this thread to further delve down the "Tear down and complain about the DM's" endless loop that they always go down. You all say you want DM's to do this and that while your hands string the noose around the DM team's proverbial neck at the same time, its really not doing the server or anyone any good.

[Louvaine]

SummerBreeze, I can assure you that whatever opinion or feedback is given publicly about the server, rules, or Staff, is not spoken to tear DMs down. It saddens me a little that you would think it's part of some attack.

I don't entirely agree with your message above, but I appreciate the crap out of it. It is valuable to know where you, one of the oldest DMs, stand.

Given how it was pointed out number of times that people feel attacked and that those threads (we all know which ones) are not seen as valuable feedback, I suggest we close all of them down. Let's just try to play with what we have or move on without disturbing those who remain.

[Lambert]

Good stuff. There are two servers. Why not make the UD server with hardcore rules and PvP at will. Players can rp on the safe server or venture into danger land where life is risky and has consequences.

Keep server one the way it is, change it up for server two.

People enjoy PvP and conflict and challenge and get bored with the login and grind. There are servers full of drow who avoid BG because it doesn’t understand UD rp, playstyle, or rp.

Lam

[Almarea90]

Server two not only includes the UD but also surface places like En Darasha, the shrine of Eldath, Kraak Helzak or blue lantern keep. Those guilds that reside there might not appreciate more liberal rules for PvP. Unless you seek to restrict it to the Underdark proper.

[DaloLorn]

Server two not only includes the UD but also surface places like En Darasha, the shrine of Eldath, Kraak Helzak or blue lantern keep. Those guilds that reside there might not appreciate more liberal rules for PvP. Unless you seek to restrict it to the Underdark proper.

Strangely, that... could still be somewhat interesting to experiment with.

[DM Spartacus]

Also an assumption all UD want pvp.

But some variation on that concept is something to explore interest and make up of any split. I also wondered if server space limited could a say 'weekend' server (or whatever time period works) be put up with this type of concept in mind - replacing the norm for a period of time too? (whether the actual server content changes or not)

Something to explore perhaps. I am sure there many more things need considered.

[DaloLorn]

Also an assumption all UD want pvp.

I mean, it makes sense. The UD is inherently a conflict-heavy setting, moreso than the surface. There's not really any NPCs to have a meaningful conflict with (nor can there be, I feel, unless the UDers kidnap the likes of Mimic or Blight ), so what remains are personal rivalries and competition between the PCs. If these likewise feel constrained, then I can definitely see why it would provoke accusations of the UD not feeling like the UD.

[Steve]

For years now, I’ve been advocating to have the Upperdark map areas be this “free” PvP/CvC Zone of the Server.

[DaloLorn]

The Upperdark is barely a thing anymore, though, except for low-to-mid-level grinding (not that it was ever particularly enticing to epics except for the Kro skeleton loop) if you can get to it via the Neblinstone or Uruk Lurra shortcuts, or the two wannabe RP hubs. If you're excluding the rest of the Underdark from whatever ruling you institute, then you might as well leave things the way they are.

[Steve]

The Upperdark is barely a thing anymore, though, except for low-to-mid-level grinding (not that it was ever particularly enticing to epics except for the Kro skeleton loop) if you can get to it via the Neblinstone or Uruk Lurra shortcuts, or the two wannabe RP hubs. If you're excluding the rest of the Underdark from whatever ruling you institute, then you might as well leave things the way they are.

The Upperdark is the perfect mid-way point that would make sense where most “deathly” interactions occurr.

That it may be in your opinion “barely a thing anymore” is a lost opportunity. Instead, the idea that Surfacers-to-Underdark and vice versa is a common thing now, just flies in the face of Lore (and done for OOC convenience), cheapening the overall experience.

Make the Upperdark great again.