Would u still play on BGTSCC if yr Toon had only "X" Lives?

[Egg Shen]

Tend to agree with many of moose's points. In particular, the bit about having a little OOC consideration in your Cvc battles. I mean, we all know the server doesn't have permadeath for pvp. So if after you defeat somebody in a character vs character contest, you then role play out a sequence where you turn them to stone, shatter the statue, and dump it in the sea, I think it's important to understand that it is not the other person who is a jackass for not "making death have no consequences" and refusing to perm their character. No, in my opinion, the jackass is you for trying force that sort of RP down somebody's throat and then getting upset about the situation because of the resulting "silly" RP that might follow.

As for pvp having no real consequences in game, I suppose that's technically true. But if it matters so little to us, why is it still the most exciting thing that happens on the server? Why does it get your blood pumping more than yet another assault on the dragon or another shopping trip to hell can? Is it all OOC and based on our competitive nature? I'm sure that's Some of it, but there are definitely in game consequences revolving around reputations and in-character ego, etc. Clearly we try very hard not to get beat up in pvp, even if we know we don't lose anything from a mechanical standpoint.

As for dying at level 30 vs pve ... I have no real opinion on that. Sure, it's definitely possible if you bite off more than you can chew. But I feel like dying at that level is due as much to OOC boredom/curiosity as anything else.

So I guess overall I'm not really a huge fan of the concept of "x lives", but as long as some form of RCR is available, it likely wouldn't stop me from playing here.

[TaskForce58]

Mariko is a RP-based character, not built for "serious" PvP, or even PvE. Her character was never supposed to be a frontline fighter, as she is a scout, not a sneak attack PvPer or a Meatshield. She will and does get owned by similar leveled characters. and even some of the mid level, hard hitting trolls and giants can and do hurt her regularly. Getting permakilled for that would definately suck, especially when , due to my playtime and style, it took her years to get to level 24.

Ive seen permadeath on some nwn1 servers, and like others posted before, you end up with a group of hard core old veterans,some of which resort to munchkining, and a pool of noobies that get frustrated and leave real quick.

[Utran]

Since dying is a matter of few dice rolls. Nope.
I have died like 3 times from random crits in the first bandit cave, then few more times in the cemetery. Nope.

[Steve]

The context for the OP question is that Death, or the loss of Lives—via permastrikes against a PC for role-play actions/results—is only applicable in DM Events (or if a Player wishes to request an official permastrike against their Toon).

Whether you like it or not,this actually exists already, on the Server!

But what is unfortunate is that Permadeath is only at the discretion of the Player, or the DM. Thus, it really has no weight.

The context, again, is that if one participates in Server Campaigns, or DM Storylines, or any role-play that has direct and indirect consequences in affecting the in-character, in-game Sword Coast environment, that that Player Character would be subject to a higher challenge rating that includes Permastrikes, and yes, possible and eventual Permadeath, if the PC is such to fail 3 times at Living.

This means, all basic PvE experiences outside of DM oversight/Events, would NEVER apply a Permastrike against your PC, unless the Player requested it.

Additionally—and this is the part where the fun comes in, for all you Death Haterz out there—is that applying a Higher Challenge Rating of Permastrikes in DM Events/Campaigns/Storylines, includes a Higher Reward System!

Yes, that means there is some Standard created that possibly doubles Rewards, or, allows for Tokens(?) or some form of additional Rewards above and beyond what currently is "passed out."

It is plainly stupid to ask for a higher challenge in this environment, if one is not willing to increase the reward for such risk. I had thought that was obvious to people, but it seems the opposite, so that is why I am tying to be more explicit here, in this post.

Why do I call for things like more consequences and systems like Permastrikes? The reason is, that over the many years of playing on BGTSCC, I see many Players group together in cliques, and within these cliques, they also "band together" both IC and OOC in order to influences the Server Wide Campaigns, as well as individual DM storylines, and change the Custom Lore and experience/history of the Server.

But they do this without little consequence to their PC's actions. It is a gameworld, RP setting in which really, there is no consequence, no rising/falling of stature, that any Character must "deal with" in their existence on BGTSCC's Sword Coast. Unless, of course...the Player decides this. But what kind of game is this, really, if the Player is both player and rule maker, game master and referee for their PC? That, in my opinion, creates a game that is about socializing, and not about seeking an experience of daring, challenge and consequence that actually gives depth and lasting meaning, to both the PC's life, and the Players experience.

Thus, I wish that Players are allowed to keep their social groups and their non-consequential role-play going in their carved out corners of the Game World, while additionally, the actual "playing the game in the Campaign/Storyline of the Year" that the DMs set out to setup for us, is worth the effort, by giving us Players a variety of meaningful challenges—as well the ultimate challenge: STAYING ALIVE!—along with giving us meaningful rewards.

I would rather die a meaningful death than to live a meaningless life.

You should read this.

Characters should not die for no reason. Their Death should have meaning. It is up to the Player(s) to make the Staying Alive/Living Large part meaningful, and for the DM(s) to make that a challenge, so that the Existence of the PC takes on a meaningful Role in this setting.

That is what D&D is about, for me. Questions?

[Egg Shen]

The "better lewt" concept seems a bit incongruous with the more high brow concept of creating a more meaningful role play experience. I'm not sure why we would assume that was such an integral part of the plan. But I doubt it will change too many opinions on the matter.

With regard to the rest, as you mentioned, it is already in place. So, as moose theorized above, this is really just about pvp, no? I mean, I'm definitely okay with permadeath being at the discretion of the player in question or the DM team, rather than other players and/or some standardized system (that will never be perfect).

[aaron22]

for me. personally. it is not solely about pvp or cvc that this is all about. i would even argue that this is less about that aspect then creating a danger inherent in the PvE aspect of the server. as is, there are a magnitude of mechanical limitations to cause problems for the admin if CvC had perma-penalties. perhaps PvP/CvC death-strikes would be a bit problematic. the more experienced server surfers would know more.

i am in favor of something that gives value to the perceived struggle that is leveling to 30. as is, you only need persistence. is that heroic? I dont think so, but that is only my opinion.

[Steve]

A higher reward system is not simply "better lewt." I think I explained that well enough, already. But, to widen the concept, it could include: Titles for PCs, free/no cost upgrades to Guilds, RP-only magics items (such as, a 1-time spell casting artifact), NPCs for your Guild or even NPCing your own Character, woven into the fabric of the Server Environment for all eternity!!!!

You get the picture (hopefully).

Because there is no good "game plan" that exists where risk disproportionately exists to reward. People usually don't play those games, unless they are masochistic, or, wish to ego-gratify their ability to deal with Risk, pure and simple.

Exactly because leveling is so easy on BGTSCC, and correctly said, only requires persistence and RL free time to do it, with very few consequencial risks involved, it does mean that Leveling has little value, as well. This point is bolstered by the fact that some pre-teens PCs have had yuuuuge affects on this Server, in its history. You do not have to be an Epic level toon to make a difference.

Or, said another way, experience the "struggle" of Living, that being all those things your Character desires to see manifest.

In my opinion, the greatest value to experience on BGTSCC is when a Character can actually change the Environment. This should be possible, whether building up something, or, tearing it down. Yet playing "that game" should be the highest challenge, and in that game, the Rewards become much more meaningful. And the losses...equally so!

[Mac]

Would u still play on BGTSCC if yr Toon had only "X" Lives?

Short answer,
Yes

Long answer,
I once spent a lot of time playing on a nwn1 server that had a permanent death system in place. The system worked as follows. Every character had a 1% chance per level of collecting a death token upon death. If I remember correctly this only started after level 5. So your first chance to collect a death token was 5% and at max level (20 in nwn1) it was 20%. Collect four death tokens and you could no longer revive ie, leave fuge or whatever their equivalent was. Whether or not this is a better approach to perma-death is very subjective to an individual persons play style. For myself, I enjoyed it very much.

(Said nwn1 server is actually still around. I'm not interested in promoting other servers but if anyone is curious about playing with a perma-death system feel free to send me a pm for a link their websight)

[dedude]

I once spent a lot of time playing on a nwn1 server that had a permanent death system in place. The system worked as follows. Every character had a 1% chance per level of collecting a death token upon death. If I remember correctly this only started after level 5. So your first chance to collect a death token was 5% and at max level (20 in nwn1) it was 20%. Collect four death tokens and you could no longer revive ie, leave fuge or whatever their equivalent was. Whether or not this is a better approach to perma-death is very subjective to an individual persons play style. For myself, I enjoyed it very much.

Almost exactly the same system as the nwn1 server I used to play on, but we called them soul strands and I think each character had 10. It was only active for PvE and DM events. I think everyone playing there liked the system, I know I did.

[cigarsmoke]

Hell yes I would, no perming on this server is boring as hell. That said, I think there should be DM supervision and rules for the perming of a character.

[Valefort]

No, perming being in the hands of the player and the DMs is a good thing because it doesn't incite to powerbuild. In a perming world I would certainly make the most powerful character possible with as much safeguard mechanics I could cram in and I wouldn't take many risks either. Losing all the time invested in a character I still like and want to play ? No thanks.

Perming seems to lead to dullness, powerbuilding or short-lived characters, which is another form of dullness in my eyes.

[Steve]

No powerbuild is immune from a skilled DM's challenge!

[dedude]

I have never played on a server with more powerbuilding than here, so maybe that isn't driven by survival instincts, as much as solo-pwnage.

[Valefort]

No powerbuild is immune from a skilled DM's challenge!

Yeah but that is covered by the "I wouldn't take many risks either." I bet people would refuse to participate in dangerous events, or log out if it becomes dangerous ..

[Hawke]

No powerbuild is immune from a skilled DM's challenge!

Yeah but that is covered by the "I wouldn't take many risks either." I bet people would refuse to participate in dangerous events, or log out if it becomes dangerous ..

I think this would hold true for the bulk of the server.

Not only that, but if your character "died", what happens to all the super powered equipment he is holding onto? You can mule the gold (would you mule if you were playing for realism???) but the equipment you have on that helps make you superman (supergirl) would be given up, no?

Just throwing things out and agreeing with Valefort.

The idea of self-imposing restrictions on your own character is great. It can add depth, but as far as a server wide feature, I think it would overall hurt the population more than help it. We already have a couple of "clubs" like the permadeath club, where its members die for good no matter the cause of the death. Maybe exploring something like that for the members who want to participate.

Or ask a DM or Global Admin to roll secretly, maintain a list somewhere in the DM holding area for characters and their secret death number... every time you die, you PM the DM team (unless a player is going to be pretty active to do this) and they mark when you die..... if you hit your last death, they PM you back saying "You dead, son." And go from there.