Powerbuild 3 Level Rule

[dzidek1983]

For the record, I don't have a NWNdb account.

i thought such people don't exist anymore

Btw. i understand what you feel... but maybe it would be easier to send a PM to a DM explaining why you want to bend the rules
i'm sure if you will make some good RP history of your character explaining your character evolution they will allow it

something like a ranger following his codex but eventually concentrating to much on melee combat (here come fighter 4 levels) which leads to loosing his ranger way of life (no more ranger feats, no more better animal companion) later after living in the wilderness and concentrating on melee combat he becomes more of a savage fighter (here come 5 lvl FB)

[Rainbow Prism]

Doesn't that have to be something that is not planned beforehand? I'd understand if you wanted to take some new class levels which you didn't plan on taking initially but were already on your 18th level. But building your whole concept on the assumption that you would be allowed to do so?

[joleda]

Going 21 Ranger then 4 X then 5 Y in that order actually makes more sense than going 11 Ranger then 3 X then 3 Y then 10 Ranger then 1 X then 2 Y. I thought someone from the Lore Police told me once the Ranger is kind of like the Paladin in that once you stop the main class you "shouldn't" go back?

The Lore confuses me sometimes so I personally just stick to the basics and abide by the rules like the lemming I am.

[Eral'ai]

Going 21 Ranger then 4 X then 5 Y in that order actually makes more sense than going 11 Ranger then 3 X then 3 Y then 10 Ranger then 1 X then 2 Y. I thought someone from the Lore Police told me once the Ranger is kind of like the Paladin in that once you stop the main class you "shouldn't" go back?

The Lore confuses me sometimes so I personally just stick to the basics and abide by the rules like the lemming I am.

True enough, but taking 3-4 different classes stresses lore too. Things such as gishes, frenzied berserkers that never go into a rage or frenzy, and people usually not in the business in stealth vanishing into thin air do not make sense. So I feel little remorse for those who have to take class levels in chunks just so that they can do some sort of outrageous fringe class that would be unheard of even in normal adventurer's terms.

[joleda]

Going 21 Ranger then 4 X then 5 Y in that order actually makes more sense than going 11 Ranger then 3 X then 3 Y then 10 Ranger then 1 X then 2 Y. I thought someone from the Lore Police told me once the Ranger is kind of like the Paladin in that once you stop the main class you "shouldn't" go back?

The Lore confuses me sometimes so I personally just stick to the basics and abide by the rules like the lemming I am.

True enough, but taking 3-4 different classes stresses lore too. Things such as gishes, frenzied berserkers that never go into a rage or frenzy, and people usually not in the business in stealth vanishing into thin air do not make sense. So I feel little remorse for those who have to take class levels in chunks just so that they can do some sort of outrageous fringe class that would be unheard of even in normal adventurer's terms.

I agree with you there. I was just pointing out that once you leave some base classes, you "shouldn't" go back according to the ambiguous lore? (For chits 'n giggles, someone with knowledge should correct me here.)

The rule is there. The rule is necessary. The rules the DMs put here prevent some of the "odd" stuff you talk about. For example, full plate warriors with 10 Dex hitting the HIPS button, even though there is zero chance of them staying hidden, to get a free damage add in the form of sneak attacks. This particular build only works because of the stupid buggy game engine and the way it handles HIPS. At least they made Shadowdancer require 19 Dex, but that doesn't stop the cheesy full plated Fighter/Ass.

My twerps are usually basic Fighter/DD or Fighter/Rogues or Fighter/EA. I tend to avoid HIPS, UMD, etc.

[kellendril]

Maybe we should open a discussion about applying for multi-classing?

[Eral'ai]

Going 21 Ranger then 4 X then 5 Y in that order actually makes more sense than going 11 Ranger then 3 X then 3 Y then 10 Ranger then 1 X then 2 Y. I thought someone from the Lore Police told me once the Ranger is kind of like the Paladin in that once you stop the main class you "shouldn't" go back?

The Lore confuses me sometimes so I personally just stick to the basics and abide by the rules like the lemming I am.

True enough, but taking 3-4 different classes stresses lore too. Things such as gishes, frenzied berserkers that never go into a rage or frenzy, and people usually not in the business in stealth vanishing into thin air do not make sense. So I feel little remorse for those who have to take class levels in chunks just so that they can do some sort of outrageous fringe class that would be unheard of even in normal adventurer's terms.

I agree with you there. I was just pointing out that once you leave some base classes, you "shouldn't" go back according to the ambiguous lore? (For chits 'n giggles, someone with knowledge should correct me here.)
The rule is there. The rule is necessary. The rules the DMs put here prevent some of the "odd" stuff you talk about. For example, full plate warriors with 10 Dex hitting the HIPS button, even though there is zero chance of them staying hidden, to get a free damage add in the form of sneak attacks. This particular build only works because of the stupid buggy game engine and the way it handles HIPS. At least they made Shadowdancer require 19 Dex, but that doesn't stop the cheesy full plated Fighter/Ass.

My twerps are usually basic Fighter/DD or Fighter/Rogues or Fighter/EA. I tend to avoid HIPS, UMD, etc.

Yeah I agree on that point. More incentive to stay one single class in my opinion if you want to stick to lore. Even if you do go solid blocks of classes it can still make little sense. Such as a Paladin/Sorceror. Sure, you can justify it slightly by being a "Paladin of Mystra" but everyone knows why you did it. It is an issue that cannot be solved without the DMs just basically going "okay guys you can have one base class and one PrC, provided the PrC matches with the base class."

[Katzenjammer]

Actually, when looking at the "lore", most NPC's and most particularly the famous ones of epic level are multiclassed. Often splashed with just one level in a class as well (which makes them rulebreakers on BG). It is a function of the 3.0 and 3.5 rules to allow for multiclassing, in fac it encourages it. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many different combinations avaliable. Sticking to one class may be all well and good, but do not complain if others do not share your purist view. Things haven't worked that way in the DnD rules since 2nd edition, and NWN does not use those rules. The game is, what the game is.

[Eral'ai]

Actually, when looking at the "lore", most NPC's and most particularly the famous ones of epic level are multiclassed. Often splashed with just one level in a class as well (which makes them rulebreakers on BG). It is a function of the 3.0 and 3.5 rules to allow for multiclassing, in fac it encourages it. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many different combinations avaliable. Sticking to one class may be all well and good, but do not complain if others do not share your purist view. Things haven't worked that way in the DnD rules since 2nd edition, and NWN does not use those rules. The game is, what the game is.

Not calling you out, just trying to clarify. But so you're saying its common for NPCs to take 3-4 classes in lore? I'm not talking epic level famous one in a million types, I'm talking about general adventurers down the middle of the line. I've never heard of NPCs being so multi-faceted, but at the same time I have not read a great deal of lore on actual NPC class makeups. Because as much as we'd like to think PCs are more special than NPCs there are those who exceed PCs in effectiveness and importance and PCs are usually somewhere between the average and exceedingly rare.

[Rainbow Prism]

Probably most famous example:

Elminster's build: Fighter1/Rogue2/Cleric9/Wizard 24/Archimage 5

[Eral'ai]

Probably most famous example:

Elminster's build: Fighter1/Rogue2/Cleric9/Wizard 24/Archimage 5

True enough, but Elminster by all rights should be one of those one in a million cases.

[Simian]

Sure, you can justify it slightly by being a "Paladin of Mystra" but everyone knows why you did it.

Knights of Mystic Fire, FTW!

As for the NPC multiclassing, it greatly depends how much effort a DM is willing to put into his NPCs. Usually monster/npc levels with some class or prestige class levels are enough to make chalenging encounters.

As for multiclassed characters from the "lore";
Danilo Thann: Aristocrat 3, Wizard 9, Spellsinger 1
Arilyn Moonblade: Fighter 4, Rogue 1, Harper Agent 5

Drizzt Do'Urden: Fighter 10, Barbarian 1, Ranger 5

Alustriel Silverhand: Sorcerer 2, Wizard 20, Archmage 2

Jarlaxe: Rogue 6, Fighter 8, Duelist 9, Wizard 1

But you should notice how their levels change from source to source and from rule-set to rule-set. But, multiclassing has been an ever present part of D&D, regardless of what the WoW-playing wannabe purists claim. Although, there are some single class characters such as Bruenor Battlehammer, or Wulfgar.

[Katzenjammer]

If you look over the campaign setting for 3.0, or books beyond that, yes. Many NPC's are multiclassed, even those who are -not- epic level. It is, as I said, how the 3.0 and 3.5 rules are designed. They were designed with multiclassing in mind, unlike the first and second edition rules. One could say it was done this way so WoTC could produce reams of tripe in the form of Supplements for prestige classes... But, there you have it.
Out of curiosity, I just pulled out a few books to look them over. It seems very few NPC's over the 10-15 range are not multiclassed, or are not something weird... like a centaur, a werewolf, an ogre, or some such.
Also, as far as Elminster, don't consider him totally one in a million. Sure, he's a chosen of Mystra. Otherwise, he's no better than any other epic wizard. Such is the way of the game.

[Rainbow Prism]

Although, there are some single class characters such as Bruenor Battlehammer, or Wulfgar.

If only Wulfgar took 2 levels of Rogue... He may have been able to evade that yochlol's touch attack.

[Katzenjammer]

And we see what happened to Wulfgar. Obviously the guy playing him was looking to be a plot device in the form of a guy who gets pwned to continue the plot so everyone's favorite *gags* drow can rescue his butt. I wonder if Wulfgar went to Victim Counselling.