Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

dean1986 wrote:Where would a favoured soul of Lloth fall into the category of rank and status?

As the current PC leader of the clergy I find it appropriate to allow a Favored Soul to join the clergy. I see no reason why not to have them trained as priestesses, since they are Divine casters who receive their spells from Lolth. I think this works the best with the setting, and mechanics of NWN.

In other words, if you are willing to learn the ways of a priestess ICly, and receive your powers from Lolth, you can have a place in her Temple.

Eldebryn wrote:(...)

So, is there a chance a DM could take some time and clarify this matter? So far I thought that, in our server and timeline at list, the Conclave only includes the 10 blue members. Most of the sources of the site I provided, with the alternative list, seem to be from the 3rd edition, which is a few decades *after* our PW's timeline.

As for the Conclave, I have been RPing the full list with the religious leaders as well. The Conclave is still however dominated by Arcanists, so their influence is limited - and there will be a political bias towards Arcanists. A DM comment/ruling on this would still be appreciated though, I had asked DM Protector about it sometime ago but never got a definitive response... though I see no reason why this would have 'changed' since 3rd Edition, maybe the NPCs were replaced, but I would assume their seats would still remain.

ICly, I RP Laele Zauvirr as the 'First Matron' of the Lolthite community at Sshamath. The most powerful female, and priestess, in the community. My character is the current head of the clergy, and essentially is a glorified instructor; being head of the School of Priestesses (Arach-Tinilith) at Sshamath. Laele Zauvirr commands the resources of (assumingly) the current most powerful Drow Noble House in Sshamath... and so has the most power within The Web of the Spider Queen.

Kenshin wrote:(...)

If the above is correct then it would seem that the followers of Vhaeraun might actually have as much influence in Sshamath as those of Lolth.

YES! I would hope that Vhaeraunites are also influential... and I am hoping to see a more organized clergy. After-all they have their own faction-base in the Darkwoods and the Lolthites haven't had one in the PW ever... :[

Myself and dm sword are the official dms that support the ud.

As for the list, only masters of a school of magic have seat in the conclave.
These masters are highlighted in blue.

Yellow is more persons of great influence within a school or are affiliated with the conclave and school of magic. Most are instructors at the school of magic and are themselves highly accomplished individuals in their field of study as well advisors to the conclave of high mages.

The red are those who have minor influence within sshamath. They are not seated but they are a part of the administration of the city. Their presence helps the conclave by keeping the religious and fringe groups sated. They are given relatively little say in the operation of the city as the conclave knows better than to give real power to any religious or zealous ideologies that differ greatly from their own agendas.

Religious leadership and radical ideologies even cults are tolerated as figureheads, but make no mistake sshamathis a facist state.

C_aribou wrote:

dean1986 wrote:Where would a favoured soul of Lloth fall into the category of rank and status?

As the current PC leader of the clergy I find it appropriate to allow a Favored Soul to join the clergy. I see no reason why not to have them trained as priestesses, since they are Divine casters who receive their spells from Lolth. I think this works the best with the setting, and mechanics of NWN.

In other words, if you are willing to learn the ways of a priestess ICly, and receive your powers from Lolth, you can have a place in her Temple.

How you roleplay your faction is up to you, and I certainly cannot and do not claim great insight into Drow lore and the dynamics of Lolth's clergy. That said, I believe it stretches credulity for the clergy to accept an adult favored soul into their midst no matter that she was blessed with divine gifts from Lolth. To begin with there is the matter of the outsider not being part of the hierarchy and not having been trained at Arach-Tinilith in the rites and practices of the caste from childhood. A favored soul would generate no small amount of jealousy and resentment for not having to train and pray for their divine connection. Most importantly, such acceptance does not really fit the stereotypical Drow character, which when it comes to positions of power is all about competition and rivalry not inclusion.

Using a favored soul as a strong arm for the priestly caste? Absolutely. Letting her join the priesthood? Not so much.

Just my two coppers for Charon, mind you.

idk FS are divine casters and all and are suppose to be highly favored by their deities and all but i dont think they would have more weight i guess over a cleric in lolth's clergy

turn undead and everything that goes with it i think is greater than any other divine form of casting (e.i. clerics > FS, war priest etc.) and thats why you need the base classes to receive what is probably the best divine boons there is, divine might and epic divine might, but thats just how i always seen it and it made sense to me

and in pnp female drow favored class is cleric, probably because lolth favors them more

but anyway a FS or any other divine caster of lolth really couldnt be denied access to lolth's clergy, i mean even warlocks that get their powers from one of lolth's demons are considered blessed by lolth and can be in the clergy if they undergo the trials of priesthood, if they take warlocks they have to take actual divine casters of all forms

Blackman D wrote:(...)

but anyway a FS or any other divine caster of lolth really couldnt be denied access to lolth's clergy, i mean even warlocks that get their powers from one of lolth's demons are considered blessed by lolth and can be in the clergy if they undergo the trials of priesthood, if they take warlocks they have to take actual divine casters of all forms

This. I need all the 'priestesses' I can get anyway, and we have a School of Priestesses for a reason. To train a character from initiate, to onwards. So, Kenshin, I guess that takes the place for the priestess training, because they are ICly/IG going through with that training.

Any Cleric/FS character less than Lvl. 9 (and lacking the proper ascendance/training RP) is considered a 'student' in the Temple faction.

However, you can quote me in saying, that Cleric is indeed the preferred class for a priestess.

As for the religious heads not being on the Conclave... is this a DM decision to alter the lore? Or is this the case in lore?

From what I have read, I can't find a source that says the religious community heads mentioned don't have a Seat on the Conclave, and are just 'administrative figures'. So I am just interested in seeing some sources on that... of course, if this is just a DM decision to alter the Lore to how they see fit for the setting, I guess thats fine too?

C aribou, I think you get a little overzealous. For what I know, Lolth is not the only deity that has temple in city. The Tower of The Masked Mage is result of Vhaeraunites trying to establish faith in male city. And also note this snippet.

Temples
Whereas the clery rules most drow enclaves, Sshamath reduces clerics to marginal roles. In many ways, clerics emulate the practices and concerns of the ruling wizard caste. In addition to the faiths discussed below, small sects of Azuth, Mystra, Savras, Velsharoon, and even various members of the Seldarine are known to exist. The latter appear in the guise of previously unknown drow demipowers, without the benefit of true clerics.
Tower of the Masked Mage
The Tower, located in the Darkwoods District, is the seat of Vhaeraun's power within the city. [Refer to link for further details]

Web of the Spider Queen
The Web, located in the northeastern part of the city, is the seat of Lolth's power (or rather, what's left of it) within the city. [Refer to link for further details]

AND more details

The Tower of the Masked Mage dangles from the roof in the Darkwoods district in the southeastern section of the city of Sshamath. Cloaked in a shifting web of shadows, this structure houses the only openly acknowledged temple of the Masked Lord in the city. In the city, Vhaeraun is venerated as the Masked Mage and the Lord of Shadow, the divine patron of Shadow Magic and Spellfilchers. Despite his obvious appeal to resentful male drow elsewhere in the Underdark, Vhaeraun has little regard in Sshamath. Here, sorcery is paramount, clerical magic is scorned, and no divine power is widely venerated.

Vhaeraun's cult consists primarily of Spellfilchers, Arcane Tricksters, and rogues, as well as a small group of drow mages who seek to found a school of Shadow Magic. The wizards of the Tower of the Masked Mage are known to fashion magical items and research spells that relate to concealment, shadow manipulation, and defeating magical wards. Examples include Boots of Balance, Chimes of Opening, Essence of Darkness, and Short Swords of Backstabbing. Shadow Sorcerer Pharaun Lhalabar (C10 of Vhaeraun), 12 additional clergy, and ninety six lay worshipers serve at the Masked Mage's temple.

The Web of the Spider Queen consists of a densely packed cluster of small stalactites and stalagmites enmeshed in a vast nest of spider webbing. The preeminent temple of Lolth in Sshamath, the Web was once the seat of true power when the matron mothers of the noble houses reigned supreme. Although all priestesses of Lolth are still educated within the sprawling temple complex, the Conclave of Sshamath is the true power in the city. While the drow of Sshamath have never formally repudiated Lolth's worship, her faith inspires only token obeisance among the population, and even less deference among the wizard caste.
Like most Sshamath institutions, the temple's residents fabricate a wide range of magical items. Lolth-worshiping wizards create spells and magical items that fall within the Spider Queen's sphere of influence, particularly those that relate to arachnids, such as Cloaks of Arachnidia, Rings of Arachnid Control, Spider Fang daggers, Spider Harnesses, and Spider Keys. The Spider Queen's clergy--restricted to females in Sshamath--have established a lucrative market for their services, assisting wizards in fabricating enchanted items when a clerical component is required.
Ilharess Laele Zauviir, seventy five additional priestesses, and one hundred twelve lay worshipers serve at the Spider Queen's temple

I've read those 'snippets' before (a few times actually o.O), but thank you for posting them again. :3 I am aware of Sshamath's setting, I am not assuming/believing for a moment that clerics have significant power, or influence in the city in comparison to how powerful the influence is of the Arcanist Schools of Magic.

However, those little 'snippets' I love, and I am RPing in one of those little 'snippets' right now, as are some players. ^.^ And like any CE faction, I think there is going to be some interesting RP generated... as there would be from the Vhaeraunites. :3

I wish I had all those fricken stalagmites though! *Shakes fist*

I wish also that Lolth temple was not the only temple mechanically IG.

Also, trade is blood of Sshamath, so traders are welcomed here. I believe that carrier of trader of Sshamath can be almost as prestigious and hard. Suddenly, I think of shady characters like Kingpin.

As far as Ilphryssin is concerned the hierarchy is simple:

1. House Arkentlar
2. Conclave / 7th Circle
3. Ilphryssin
4. Non magical Drow that do not worship Gods
5. Non magical God worshipping Drow
6. Other sentient races capable of magic
7. Divine casting Godslaves of any race
8. Monster Races

He spends much time scaring plotting godslaves with witty messages at awkward moments and greatly enjoys the fruits of his labour.

I loled at number 3.

C_aribou wrote:

dean1986 wrote:Where would a favoured soul of Lloth fall into the category of rank and status?

As the current PC leader of the clergy I find it appropriate to allow a Favored Soul to join the clergy. I see no reason why not to have them trained as priestesses, since they are Divine casters who receive their spells from Lolth. I think this works the best with the setting, and mechanics of NWN.

In other words, if you are willing to learn the ways of a priestess ICly, and receive your powers from Lolth, you can have a place in her Temple.

Eldebryn wrote:(...)

So, is there a chance a DM could take some time and clarify this matter? So far I thought that, in our server and timeline at list, the Conclave only includes the 10 blue members. Most of the sources of the site I provided, with the alternative list, seem to be from the 3rd edition, which is a few decades *after* our PW's timeline.

As for the Conclave, I have been RPing the full list with the religious leaders as well. The Conclave is still however dominated by Arcanists, so their influence is limited - and there will be a political bias towards Arcanists. A DM comment/ruling on this would still be appreciated though, I had asked DM Protector about it sometime ago but never got a definitive response... though I see no reason why this would have 'changed' since 3rd Edition, maybe the NPCs were replaced, but I would assume their seats would still remain.

ICly, I RP Laele Zauvirr as the 'First Matron' of the Lolthite community at Sshamath. The most powerful female, and priestess, in the community. My character is the current head of the clergy, and essentially is a glorified instructor; being head of the School of Priestesses (Arach-Tinilith) at Sshamath. Laele Zauvirr commands the resources of (assumingly) the current most powerful Drow Noble House in Sshamath... and so has the most power within The Web of the Spider Queen.

Kenshin wrote:(...)

If the above is correct then it would seem that the followers of Vhaeraun might actually have as much influence in Sshamath as those of Lolth.

YES! I would hope that Vhaeraunites are also influential... and I am hoping to see a more organized clergy. After-all they have their own faction-base in the Darkwoods and the Lolthites haven't had one in the PW ever... :[

I see then I'm sure Val'naka would approve of joining the clergy. Thanks all for clarifying that for me. Yes i'm glad i read up on my lore. There was just a little confusion on behalf where I stood in the clergy.

On the Favored soul vs Clergy. There is a large amount of animosity between the organized religion and those just born gifted.

Most of the time a FS will not be as obedient to the dogma but somehow they seem to just "know it". I personally, tend to play clerics very staunchly rooted in the written word and spoken word of their deities. I also play Favored souls as an ingenue of the deity that does not take the mortal words and interpretations of the clergy as gospel. The FS to me, "knows or acts intuitively" as a living representation of their deity's dogma. They are the closest mortal vessel to the god than their own aspect or avatars. They normally do not follow the commands of other mortals who may have different interpretations on the faith and other minutae that seems completely obvious to them since the day they were born.

As per the Conclave... the Conclave is regarded as the Conclave of MAGES. Only Masters of the schools can have a seat on the conclave as all matters defer to themselves. This as per the FRwiki and is canon lore to the setting:

The city is now ruled over by the Conclave of Sshamath, an oligarchy composed of one representative from each of the 8 schools of magical specialization, one who does not specialize, and one who is elected from among the more esoteric arcane practitioners (Elemental Savants, Deep Diviners, etc).

link here: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sshamath

No one other than a Master of the school or a Master Mage (general practitioner) or and esoteric form of magic can hold a seat on the Conclave.

I understand that FS is not part of the clergy however I have connected her directly with the clergy by bringing potential Lloth worshippers to the high priestess so they can be converted completely to Lloth. Although I myself do not worship my god I do think that Lloths power would increase by her influence therefore doing this as of her will. So to speak. I feel it's more of an alliance to the clergy. After all we both want the same things and that's for Lloth to secretly have complete power once more. Collecting the souls of her master is a good way of putting it ^^