Rank, Status and Respect.

[dean1986]

I have been playing in the UD for quite sometime now and have two priestess's there. I am finding that nearly all male Drows I come in contact with have no respect for the priestess. In fact I was just killed by a mere fighter. Now if the rankings show truth then why am I getting grief with male figher pc's. Apparently they all follow no one. This is ridiculous. In true RP a mere fighter would not dare to oppose the priestess for the wrath of the priestess of Lloth. I understand that the city is unique and governed by wizards however what rank does a fighter have over a priestess?

[Blackman D]

lolth has very little influence in sshamath compared to the conclave so if you were killed outside the city they probably wouldnt care

everyone else within the clergy would probably be pissed as all hell that they lost a yathrin but thats probably about it

but the rank status and respect thing is perspective, if you are in the conclave and someone is a lolthite expect it to be low, if you are a common person not on either side then it depends on that persons personal preference, and if you are in lolth's clergy or associated with lolth in any way shape or form then a yathrin would have a high status

and since sshamath isnt a lolth based city those who view yathrin as high status will probably be in low numbers (total PC and NPC wise)

[TheVoid]

In Sshamath, arcane rules. Gods are less important to the ruling body and the impression of that has been passed to the common folk as well. Hence the "City of Dark Weavings" moniker.

Lolth is a respected deity but not revered. Male drow that are raised in Sshamath have no real fear of lolth as they would in a Lolthlite city. Most commoners of course would fear a priestess as they would fear anyone that had substantial power over their lives. But as far as a PW perspective, your peers IG are not the ordinary commoner. They are adventurers who may of may not respect the so-called "order of things" and are given the leeway to control their destinies.

So a disrespectful male warrior who is FAIRLY capable of tearing apart a female priestess can and do exist in this city while still abiding by the canon lore of Sshamath.

This is why Lolth has not been very successful in Sshamath both IG and in canon. They are quietly oppressed, outsmarted and out-manuvered by the males which is completely insane in regards to the predominantly matriarchal drow society. This is why Lolth does not have a growing or thriving movement in Sshamath currently.

My suggestion is that you may want to alter your RP if you wish to avoid friction with the attitude of a society that will not tolerate impudence from any force be it, foreign, religious, economical, or political since the Conclave ar notoriously merciless for containing "problems".

[dean1986]

I see. That really helped to clarify my position. It is strange as I'm used to rping drow priestess's and there power. Thanks for the insight. So how would a sorceress or female wizard be treated within the city?

[Blackman D]

sshamath protects those with arcane power so not likely to be able to mess with any who can cast while they are in the city

they have a high respect for magic, but thats not to say casters can get away with anything they want, if you break the laws the conclave will still come down on you pretty hard

[Eldebryn]

sshamath protects those with arcane power so not likely to be able to mess with any who can cast while they are in the city

they have a high respect for magic, but thats not to say casters can get away with anything they want, if you break the laws the conclave will still come down on you pretty hard

That applies to wizards who devote their lives in researching the arcane. Sorcerers... not so much...Sorcs are still a bit higher than non-casters I think, though they don't get the perks of wizards like being first class citizens and protected from slavery. Also a male wiz of similar power might be more respected.

[Rasael]

Hierarchy:

0. Conclave and it's organisations. (Charnag Maelthra, Schools of Magic)
1. Wizards, Arcanists
2. Bards and other semi arcane classes that study for their magic (arcane archers)
3. Sorcerors and other arcane classes that do not study for arcane magic
4. Everyone else

Tier 3 and 4 means you are not a full citizen and can be enslaved if from a race that is considered incapable of studied arcane magic.

[Blackman D]

then why would a bard be higher than a sorcerer when they both spontaneously cast

dont confuse bardic knowledge with their casting ability, its the same as a sorcerer

[Eldebryn]

Actually any kind of drow, and only drow, can be a full citizen. That is independent to the slavery immunity granted to every race with at least one level in wizard.

also BD is right wizards > other arcanists

[C_aribou]

As has been mentioned, the Lolthite Faith once dominated Sshamath, but now no longer. Many in the city still observe certain rites of Lolth, and give token obeisance/deference to the priestesses. However, it is common knowledge the Clerics of Lolth don't hold the power they once did.

Still, there is a faction for the Temple of Lolth at the moment, which has good activity, and has many PCs which still follow The Ways of Lolth strictly. There are also Lolthite noble houses, still, and always we are in need of more. If you held rank, and influence in this faction, I daresay your characters force of will in Sshamath would generally be greater as well. :3 Contact me if your interested in getting involved with the clergy, please. A link to the faction charter can be found in my signature.

Don't forget the Lolthites Lore-wise hold a section of the city, and that the priestesses do very good business in Sshamath (and in Faerun's markets) selling Divine items, scrolls, and wares. Which are very valuable (and needed even by the male mages). Also, although the majority of the Conclave is dominated by male mages - a Lolthite, Ilharess Laele Zauvirr (NPC), holds a Seat upon it representing the Lolth-worshipping Drow of Sshamath.

Still, lets be realistic. Even though Sshamath is not Lolthite, there are a lot of players of Lolthite Drow (like this one!) making characters, or playing, on the server. :3 Shutting Down Lolthite influence/RP in Sshamath would just be degenerative to the player-base at this point - so it should be encouraged from all sides in my opinion. Although, I think we need more Vhaeraunites/Eilistraeeians too... <_<;;

[Kenshin]

Don't forget the Lolthites Lore-wise hold a section of the city, and that the priestesses do very good business in Sshamath (and in Faerun's markets) selling Divine items, scrolls, and wares. Which are very valuable (and needed even by the male mages). Also, although the majority of the Conclave is dominated by male mages - a Lolthite, Ilharess Laele Zauvirr (NPC), holds a Seat upon it representing the Lolth-worshipping Drow of Sshamath.

As per the Forgotten Realms Wiki:

Sshamath's ruling Conclave

Masoj Dhuunyl (md, Abj - *Abj) Master of Abjuration
Shurdriira Helviiryn (fd, Tra - *Tra) Master of Alteration
Urlryn Khalazza (md, Con - *Con) Master of Conjuration and Summoning
Seldszar Elpragh (md, Div - *Div) Master of Divination
Malaggar Xarann (md, Enc - *Enc) Master of Enchantment and Charm
Felyndiira T'orgh (fd, Ill - *Ill) Master of Illusion and Phantasm
Krondorl Waeglossz (md, Inv - *Evo) Master of Invocation and Evocation
Tsabrak of the Blood (md vampire, Nec - *Nec) Master of Necromancy
Guldor Zauviir (md, M - *Wiz/Acm) Master of Mages
Antatlab of the Shaking Stones (md, EleE - *Wiz/ElemSav) Master of Elemental Magic
Alak Faerzhind (md, Tra) Master of Apportation and senior member of the school of Alteration
Calimar Arkhenneld (md, lich Enc), Master Emeritus of the School of Enchantment and Charm, premier creator of magical items in Sshamath, follower of Mystra
Q’arlynd Melarn (Wiz,High-mg) College of Ancient Arcana
Nym Mlezziir (md, F/M - *Ftr/Wiz) Battlemaster of the Eastern Marches & the ruins of Oghrann
Nurissa Vyllshan (fd, *Ill/Sha) Mistress of the Shadow School
"Ilharess" Laele Zauviir (fd, P) leader of the Spider Queen's temple,FU
Wildstorm (md, WildMage) leader of the Cult of Malyk, FU
Pharaun Lhalabar (md, P) leader of the clergy of Vhaeraun

If the above is correct then it would seem that the followers of Vhaeraun might actually have as much influence in Sshamath as those of Lolth.

[Eldebryn]

(Kenshin posted before me but I will post this too, just in case)

That Lolth-worshipping female of the Conclave was mostly unknown to me so far.

After some research it looks like our current list of Conclave NPCs here is lacking some members.

A different list is on this page if one scrolls down to the Sshamath part:
EDIT: also seems to match Kenshin's list from the wikia, but I have no idea what timeline that list is based on either.

SSHAMATH
Sshamath's ruling conclave
Masoj Dhuunyl (md, Abj - *Abj) Master of Abjuration
Shurdriira Helviiryn (fd, Tra - *Tra) Master of Alteration
Urlryn Khalazza (md, Con - *Con) Master of Conjuration and Summoning
Seldszar Elpragh (md, Div - *Div) Master of Divination
Malaggar Xarann (md, Enc - *Enc) Master of Enchantment and Charm
Felyndiira T'orgh (fd, Ill - *Ill) Master of Illusion and Phantasm
Krondorl Waeglossz (md, Inv - *Evo) Master of Invocation and Evocation
Tsabrak of the Blood (md vampire, Nec - *Nec) Master of Necromancy
Guldor Zauviir (md, M - *Wiz/Acm) Master of Mages
Antatlab of the Shaking Stones (md, EleE - *Wiz/ElemSav) Master of Elemental Magic
Alak Faerzhind (md, Tra) Master of Apportation and senior member of the school of Alteration
Calimar Arkhenneld (md, lich Enc), Master Emeritus of the School of Enchantment and Charm, premier creator of magical items in Sshamath, follower of Mystra
Nym Mlezziir (md, F/M - *Ftr/Wiz) Battlemaster of the Eastern Marches & the ruins of Oghrann
Nurissa Vyllshan (fd, *Ill/Sha) Mistress of the Shadow School
"Ilharess" Laele Zauviir (fd, P) leader of the Spider Queen's temple,FU
Wildstorm (md, WildMage) leader of the Cult of Malyk, FU
Pharaun Lhalabar (md, P) leader of the clergy of Vhaeraun

In the list found, the blue ones are categorized as *the only* "members of the conclave", the yellow ones are listed as "important NPCs" and the red ones are not even mentioned in the Lore of Sshamath thread.


So, is there a chance a DM could take some time and clarify this matter? So far I thought that, in our server and timeline at list, the Conclave only includes the 10 blue members. Most of the sources of the site I provided, with the alternative list, seem to be from the 3rd edition, which is a few decades *after* our PW's timeline.

[dean1986]

Where would a favoured soul of Lloth fall into the category of rank and status?

[Kenshin]

A favored soul is not specifically a member of the clergy, at the same time they possess an innate connection to their deity. As such, I would expect that a favored soul of Lolth would be treated with deference by followers of Lolth. At the same time, I would think that they would elicit more than a little jealousy from and exclusion by the clergy.

[TheVoid]

There are quite a few lolth worshippers playing in the ud enviro just remember where you are and read the lore carefully before you assume anything you do is 100% appropriate for a place that has little patience for zealous ideologies from their own race as wellas foreigners. The lolth clergy in sshamath are much different than the ones that lead legions of drow and slaves under the banner of noblehouses.

Sshamath is a city of trade, thats the priority. Anything perceived to threaten the trade dynamic will result in the conclave taking direct action or involvement.

As far as females, many are considered equal to males which is blasphemy to lolth following drow, there are also organizations that discriminate against females for fear of infiltration by followers of the spider queen. This is the dynamic, spider worshippers are tolerated and respectes by most ordinary denizens of the city however this does not apply to pcs. Though mistrusted by the ruling class, the conclave offers protection to all that live within the city limits, how fair or just that protection is...well......they are still drow afterall.