Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

NeOmega, it was not my intention to single out any particular player. In fact, I don't have a problem with conflict roleplay as long as it does not turn into general chaos in a supposedly safe area. When it takes place in a cavern full of traders, wagons, pack animals, guards, and assorted NPCs about their business, there is a high probability of it becoming a much larger rumble that will affect nearby players who may have little desire for or ability to survive the resulting scrum.

As you yourself have noted the subsequently levied fine was quite harsh and more deeply felt by the low level characters caught up in the situation than your protagonist. An unintended consequence perhaps, but one justifiable on law enforcement grounds. In a place as dependent on trade as Sshamath, the authorities would most certainly wish to keep a monopoly on violence, and not stand for mayhem and destruction of property in a caravanserai.

Incidentally, as Aelcar has pointed out, there were things in play beyond your personal enmity with Israe'anna.

As for basic decency, in a shared environment like the BG persistent world, I take that to primarily mean sharing the space in such a way as to allow everyone a chance at breathing life into their own, unique, character concepts.

I'll just say when pvp happens, or negative actions happen, as long as you're not perm'd your char can rise up for it, and if you get mad at someone ooc'ly if you speak with them respectfully (Mutually) most problems can be solved. Just roll with the punches and drive on!

Kenshin wrote: As for basic decency, in a shared environment like the BG persistent world, I take that to primarily mean sharing the space in such a way as to allow everyone a chance at breathing life into their own, unique, character concepts.

+1!

I mean, that was like a fine I would expect to be leveled against someone for exploiting, or NPC killing or something like that.

Unless things have changed drastically, I think you can expect a much, much healthier consequnce for exploiting or NPC killing.

I remember having confirmed offenders roll a dice based on current level, whatever the result was the number of levels they lost. I dont think too many second chances were given either. We have too many people playing here to allow exploiting and other sorts of douchey behavior to go lightly punished.

A 10k gold IC fine is a lot on the face, yes.. but if you can get that back by 'a few days grinding' as you said.. it wasn't THAT steep.

TheVoid wrote:The Varalla's passage is a HEAVY trade route in the lore of the setting. it is filled with caravans and all sorts of merchants and travelers who come to and from Sshamath for trade, recreation, study, etc... if anyone has read the lore in the source books or even on this forum, you would know that it is a heavily trafficed area even though IG it looks empty. It is sparse IG because we simply cannot add that many NPC's and placeables in such a small area to represent the large volume of traffic that comes through that tradeway. It is up to the player to read the lore and respect that it should have hundreds if not thousands of NPCs coming and going from the City. You can easily remember this by using your imagination instead of what is pixelated in front of your character.

The game has limitations on how much content we can add before performance is affected on both the server and player resources. So the lore is written with the premise that it would be read and players understand that they will have to suspend disbelief in order to coincide with the written lore.

I found this link, which has a fair bit of interesting information about Sshamath and other UD cities: http://crpp0001.uqtr.ca/w4/campagne/PDF ... erdark.pdf

The introduction says "30th day of Nightal, Year of the Tankard", which I think is 1370 DR. This is what it says about Varalla's Passage:

The most important and direct route from the surface is Varalla's Passage. Completed by the Lich Queen at the behest of the Conclave of Sshamath, this route promises to one day open the legendary markets of Sshamath to the Realms Above. Sememmon discovered Varalla's Passage in the Year of the Griffon (1312 DR), but kept it secret from all but his most trusted apprentices. Within days of the destruction of Zhentil Keep, Sememmon dispatched emissaries to negotiate a trade accord between the drow wizards of Sshamath and the Zhentarim of Darkhold. Negotiations continue slowly; Sememmon's fears tipped his hand to Manshoon, and the conservative elements of Sshamath's ruling council feared revealing themselves to hordes of surface dwellers.

If players were to go by source books, Varalla's Passage would be hardly used at all in our timeline. It is also much larger than depicted in our server, and serves as a continuous route between Sshamath and the surface. We've used it as a short link between Sshamath and the rest of the UD, which is incorrect.

If we want Varalla's Passage to be an extension of Sshamath similar to the farmlands outside of BG, then I suggest that we remove the monsters from the area. For a busy trading passage, it doesn't make sense to have kobalds, vargouille and bats running rampant.

Also worth noting, this is the first time I have ever seen a fine given for fighting in Varalla's Passage. In the past, DM's had no problem with characters taking their grievances outside the city and settling them in Varalla's (away from the guards, of course). That map has seen a lot of bloodshed.

The information you cite, Molag, certainly appears to be canon. It makes little difference however, considering how Sshamath and its environs have been laid out on the server. Additionally, the connection with Darkhold has not been implemented prior to the current, altogether non-canon, server story arc involving the fall of Darkhold to the forces of a powerful Alhoon and the threat that that illithilich subsequently poses to Sshamath.

The fact is that Varalla's Passage as presented on the server is a paved and guarded thoroughfare, directly connected to the city, and terminating in a cave that serves as a rest stop complete with merchants, guards, and accommodations. The fact that there are some minor easily dispatched pests that occasionally enter the passage does not imply that the authorities would allow more disruptive fighting to take place there.

But this is all a moot point anyway because the fighting took place at the Cavern of Caravans, a place that is full of NPCs and in this case several PCs were there as well. But then you should know, as one the characters involved was yours as I recall. The fact is that, due to game mechanics, once offensive area of effect spells are used, the NPCs (including at least one epic caster) will come into play and noncombatant bystanders can get flattened in the process. I would think that the presence of NPC guards in the area is a clear indication that it is not the place to start mayhem.

Using an Aoe in the passage is forbidden as the lore also states that there are numerous other underdark denizens that use the passage and the tunnels around sshamath to travel to and froe the area.

In terms of IC consequences, I think those involved were lucky to encounter a guard with a heavy handed fine. It could of been much worse, like using your acid fog AOE and enveloping an Elder Orb or a Master Necromancer from the school of magic; that was coming or going from the area. But i can totally see how dying is less severe than loosing a large sum of gold, I mean your character's life isn't worth much more than what they can buy anyhow.. I guess.

As for the lore, canon says Varalla's has never been really opened and does state that Sshamath is a secret to all on the surface except a few powerful wizards and of course the zhentarim. In our parallel timeline, the zhents have already opened the passage which is the reason why their hold was seiged in the on-going but epically overdrawn metaplot, an event that diverts from the original storyline of the BG series, which mirrors the same diversion of the Amn/Gate War for the surface.

I agree with Kenshin that some suspension of disbelief and consideration for animate and inanimate characters should be the norm. I think this time it was a case of the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people to mess with. The guards in Sshamath are drow afterall, they are merciless and petty as their general alignment dictates. They are especially bold when they are surrounded with allies and are backed by a very powerful government, especially under conditions of near martial law in which is the state of the City.

Kenshin wrote:But this is all a moot point anyway because the fighting took place at the Cavern of Caravans, a place that is full of NPCs and in this case several PCs were there as well. But then you should know, as one the characters involved was yours as I recall.

Actually, the fighting took place near the middle of Varalla's Passage, where it splits off towards the escaped slave area. Well away from the guards near the entrance to Sshamath, and also well away from the merchant area at the far end of Varalla's Passage.

The fact is that, due to game mechanics, once offensive area of effect spells are used, the NPCs (including at least one epic caster) will come into play and noncombatant bystanders can get flattened in the process. I would think that the presence of NPC guards in the area are a clear indication that it is not the place to start mayhem.

There were no AOE's cast by my sorcerer when he dispatched the fellow that had been repeatedly slandering the 7th Circle. The fight went as follows: Quickened Assay Resistance --> Quickened Bigby 6 --> Maximized IGMS --> Maximized IGMS. It was over in eighteen seconds, and none of the spells posed any threat to would be bystanders.

Anyways, I have no problem with the fining, as I agree that disputes should be taken to more remote locations. Everyone involved now knows that Varalla's is fully patrolled by NPC guards, despite the fact that low level PC's fling around fireballs at kobalds and bats that inhabit the side passages.

Actually, the fighting took place near the middle of Varalla's Passage, where it splits off towards the escaped slave area. Well away from the guards near the entrance to Sshamath, and also well away from the merchant area at the far end of Varalla's Passage.

Interesting. And is that where the other, near simultaneous, fight took place as well? From the injuries and missing NPC at the caravanserai, as well as the report received by my character, it certainly appeared that some altercation had taken place there.

I must add that I personally have not seen any fireballs cast in Varalla's Passage. It hardly seems worth the effort as the pests there represent no great menace to anyone able to cast that spell (unless it were to be cast by a novice wizard from a scroll).

Kenshin wrote:Interesting. And is that where the other, near simultaneous, fight took place as well? From the injuries and missing NPC at the caravanserai, as well as the report received by my character, it certainly appeared that some altercation had taken place there.

Apparently there had been two or three previous incidents that day involving the fellow that my sorcerer dispatched. I would guess that one of those incidents took place near the caravans, but not the one involving the 10k gold fine.

The duel that Zix was overseeing also took place near the middle of Varalla's. At one point they headed down the passage leading to the slave area. My sorcerer was returning to Sshamath when the duel started, which is why he stopped at that spot to see what was happening.

Just wanted to throw out there, Zix did cast two AOE's. However, one was in a side cavern, where the bats/kobolds are. The other was over a body of a player who attacked Molag. In the end, 2 players acted in self defense, 2 were dueling, and one was watching on. And oh, it is more difficult than a few day's grind to rebuild 10k gold >,<